M10M gate coming?

[BrianS]

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Post the image that has been ruined by the vertical line. 

[canlogic]

10 hours ago, jplomley said:

When you shell out $11.5K and a vertical line ruins ones carefully crafted images that cannot be repeated and are part of an on-going project, yes it’s an issue. 

You would think that Leica would make sure these cameras were defect free when leaving the factory at these prices.

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[adan]

I wouldn't think that, actually.

But then, I've been around the Leica-M racetrack a few times, and know that the connection between price and "defects" in Leica-World is rather tenuous, except in a few narrowly defined areas. Electronics never having being one of them - except by random luck.

[jaapv]

On 4/24/2021 at 7:50 PM, jplomley said:

If I use the Auto transform function in LR (or perform manually), I observe a waffle pattern in the shadows that I am certain would show up in prints. Happens on both M10M's (July 2020 and January 2021 dates of manufacture). I've a feeling this is a LR issue.

Yes, that is a demosaicing artefacten. 

[jplomley]

5 hours ago, jaapv said:

Yes, that is a demosaicing artefacten. 

Why does it only occur on the M10M and not my M10-R or SL2? A Bayer filter is necessary for precise transpose of pixels? When doing street, in many instances there is no time to ensure all straight lines are straight, and so I really rely on the Transform tooling LR to clean up the image in post. But the shadow areas have this extremely annoying waffle pattern that render the Transform tool useless. Seems like a sensor design flaw to me.

Edited April 29, 2021 by jplomley

[overexposed]

13 minutes ago, jplomley said:

Why does it only occur on the M10M

Remember? they said that sensor was designed specificly for BW shots, weird enough they didnt use the same sensor in the Q2 monochrome then, ah well marketing BS.

i am still considering the M10M later this year but i would like to know whats this issue

[Jeff S]

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9 minutes ago, overexposed said:

Remember? they said that sensor was designed specificly for BW shots, weird enough they didnt use the same sensor in the Q2 monochrome then, ah well marketing BS.

i am still considering the M10M later this year but i would like to know whats this issue

The M10 Monochrom and M10-R share sensor architecture from the S3 (just as the the M246 and M240 derived from the S007). The M10-R primarily differs from the M10 Monochrom by the addition of the color array. Development for both cameras was initiated simultaneously; the M10-R took a bit longer to come to market in order to deal with color issues. The Q sensor technology corresponds more closely to the SL series.  
 

I have no clue regarding the issues described here for the M10 Monochrom.  
 

Jeff

[jplomley]

Will post some images shortly demonstrating the waffle pattern and vertical line in images, just heading out the door. 

[jaapv]

53 minutes ago, jplomley said:

Why does it only occur on the M10M and not my M10-R or SL2? A Bayer filter is necessary for precise transpose of pixels? When doing street, in many instances there is no time to ensure all straight lines are straight, and so I really rely on the Transform tooling LR to clean up the image in post. But the shadow areas have this extremely annoying waffle pattern that render the Transform tool useless. Seems like a sensor design flaw to me.

I have seen it on a number of cameras, including non-Leica ones. I dislike the effect intensely.. Basically it occurs mainly when lifting shadows.

[overexposed]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

The M10 Monochrom and M10-R share sensor architecture from the S3 (just as the the M246 and M240 derived from the S007). The M10-R primarily differs from the M10 Monochrom by the addition of the color array. Development for both cameras was initiated simultaneously; the M10-R took a bit longer to come to market in order to deal with color issues. The Q sensor technology corresponds more closely to the SL series.  
 

I have no clue regarding the issues described here for the M10 Monochrom.  
 

Jeff

this is pretty much 80% false knowledge about sensor technology, just the 246 and 240 share(probably) the same underlying sensor and the only difference we know about might be the CFA

 

the m10r and m10(p) are completely different sensors!

 

[Jeff S]

18 minutes ago, overexposed said:

the m10r and m10(p) are completely different sensors!

 

I didn’t say a thing about the M10-P or M10.  Try again. Leica sourced info is readily available.

Jeff

[jplomley]

First example, 28 Cron Asph v2 with Leica orange filter. Shot at f/5.6.

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[jplomley]

Exhibit #2 with crop to follow. This one with the 24/3.8 Elmar at f/8.0 with Leica orange filter

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[jplomley]

And the crop showing the vertical line and wonderful waffle pattern. All yours for only $11.5K CDN, what a bargain

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[RMF]

Only a sample of one here, but I tried to duplicate the vertical line in the upper thirds shooting into a bluish sky with my M10M and it all looks clean and correct.. ran the dehaze to the max left and still looked good.  Build on body according to the box is 12/20/19 so its one of the very early ones out the door. I'm sorry you are hitting this issue.. looking forward to what Leica says.

Edited April 30, 2021 by RMF

[jplomley]

Gave all the info to my dealer with sample images which were sent to Leica two days ago. No word yet. Camera is only a week old, so will likely return it and get a refund. Shame, because I waited a year to add an M10M. The two I’ve received were both defective, so I think I will just move on. Quite frustrating to say the least. 

[Gobert]

I’ve searched through quite some M10M images but could not discover any example of the vertical line in my library. 
Used LR and PS.

[jplomley]

5 hours ago, Gobert said:

I’ve searched through quite some M10M images but could not discover any example of the vertical line in my library. 
Used LR and PS.

You won the lottery! Congrats :-)

[Gobert]

12 minutes ago, jplomley said:

You won the lottery! Congrats 🙂

I am not the only one….

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[tgray]

First I've seen of this topic.  FWIW, I figured if my camera had this issue, I had one photo in mind that I took on a day with clear blue sky and a 21mm lens with an orange filter.  Sure enough, run the Dehaze filter up a bit and there it was in the sky.  I could find it on a bunch of other photos as well.  Dehaze really seems to bring it out and it mostly shows up on areas of smooth transitions (sky, walls, etc.).  A little bit of the Grain effect completely wipes it out, as does higher ISO shots.  One other thing I noticed is it seems to be mostly contained in the upper third of the image, though that could just be a result of composition and subject matter.