mmradman Posted July 13, 2021 Share #221 Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) We have seen in many posts picking up on poor QC that despite all the claims of Leica’s being hand assembled final stage which would be to adjust electronic to common standard appears to be not done every time. In my mind that is only explanation why some specimens are trouble free and others are rejects that just happen to end up in retail €€€. I am hoping somebody in Leica management is reading this, as much as I would like to buy next M camera high price and poor QC is not good sales strategy to convince me and I am kind of person who is sufficiently techno savvy not to fall for usual marketing BS, not to mention M246 does pretty decent job. Edited July 13, 2021 by mmradman 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 13, 2021 Posted July 13, 2021 Hi mmradman, Take a look here M10M gate coming?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
hdmesa Posted July 13, 2021 Share #222 Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, mmradman said: We have seen in many posts picking up on poor QC that despite all the claims of Leica’s being hand assembled final stage which would be to adjust electronic to common standard appears to be not done every time. In my mind that is only explanation why some specimens are trouble free and others are rejects that just happen to enD up in retail €€€. I am hoping somebody in Leica management is reading this, as much as I would like to buy next M camera high price and poor QC is not good sales strategy to convince me and I am kind of person who is sufficiently techno savvy not to fall for usual marketing BS. I would have to agree. My M10-P Reporter new out of a sealed box had the bottom plate protective cover all scratched to hell – no big deal since it's job is to protect the bottom plate, but it just means the camera was poorly handled at the factory and/or during rounds of testing – sliding it around on a rough surface it looked like. My first 50 Lux Black Chrome was poorly assembled and was soft at close distance – second copy was fine. Both my first M10M and this new M10M-LW had a bunch of dust spots all over the sensor. I had to take an air bulb/blower to the sensors right out of the box to get them clean. Never – ever – have I had a new camera show up with this much dust on the sensor from any other manufacturer. Occasionally I've seen maybe a single spec, but never anything like this. The two dust specs in the red boxes – they are large enough to show up without any adjustments in post – but look how many other spots show up after pushing the file. This is literally right out of the box and quickly putting on the 28 Lux – indoors, no moving air, and I used a blower to clean off any dust from the rear of the lens and the body cap before putting the lens on. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited July 13, 2021 by hdmesa 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/316688-m10m-gate-coming/?do=findComment&comment=4237818'>More sharing options...
mmradman Posted July 13, 2021 Share #223 Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, hdmesa said: I would have to agree. My M10-R new out of a sealed box had the bottom plate protective cover all scratched to hell – no big deal since it's job is to protect the bottom plate, but it just means the camera was poorly handled at the factory and/or during rounds of testing – sliding it around on a rough surface it looked like. My first 50 Lux Black Chrome was poorly assembled and was soft at close distance – second copy was fine. Both my first M10M and this new M10M-LW had a bunch of dust spots all over the sensor. I had to take an air bulb/blower to the sensors right out of the box to get them clean. Never – ever – have I had a new camera show up with this much dust on the sensor from any other manufacturer. Occasionally I've seen maybe a single spec, but never anything like this. The two dust specs in the red boxes – they are large enough to show up without any adjustments in post – but look how many other spots show up after pushing the file. This is literally right out of the box and quickly putting on the 28 Lux – indoors, no moving air, and I used a blower to clean off any dust from the rear of the lens and the body cap before putting the lens on. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! If people are prepared to pay premium over the mainstream mirrorless why bother with QC. Leica built reputation on robustness, at this rate reputation may be lost and it takes time to build one, pretty basic in any business and even all the PR by Leica star players like Peter Karbe May not be enough one day. I have personally spend lot of money on M cameras and lenses and happy to keep M lenses and use m246 however if anyone would ask me for purchase advice today or in the future I would be blunt with facts. Edited July 13, 2021 by mmradman Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted July 13, 2021 Share #224 Posted July 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, mmradman said: If people are prepared to pay premium over the mainstream mirrorless why bother with QC. Leica built reputation on robustness, at this rate reputation may be lost and it takes time to build one, pretty basic in any business. I have personally spend lot of money on M cameras and lenses and happy to keep M lenses and use m246 however if anyone would ask me for purchase advice I would be blunt with facts. It does make me want to buy an M film camera, lol. Maybe that's their new strategy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jplomley Posted July 13, 2021 Share #225 Posted July 13, 2021 45 minutes ago, hdmesa said: Yes, we heard you. Don't take it out on me like I'm some sort of child that didn't understand. The outcome of my inquiry was actually worse – no response to one of their flagship US stores. Everyone with the issue needs to contact Leica support, not hang on the fact that you – one person – got an unsatisfactory response. Whoa, easy tiger! Not taking it out on anyone. Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion. Apologies if my comment spiked your blood pressure. Just simply pointing out for those late joining the thread that one formal response from the motherland has been posted. We shall see if that changes in lieu of the fact it is now Leica Miami involved, an outfit that does more marketing for Leica than Leica itself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jplomley Posted July 13, 2021 Share #226 Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, hdmesa said: I would have to agree. My M10-P Reporter new out of a sealed box had the bottom plate protective cover all scratched to hell – no big deal since it's job is to protect the bottom plate, but it just means the camera was poorly handled at the factory and/or during rounds of testing – sliding it around on a rough surface it looked like. My first 50 Lux Black Chrome was poorly assembled and was soft at close distance – second copy was fine. Both my first M10M and this new M10M-LW had a bunch of dust spots all over the sensor. I had to take an air bulb/blower to the sensors right out of the box to get them clean. Never – ever – have I had a new camera show up with this much dust on the sensor from any other manufacturer. Occasionally I've seen maybe a single spec, but never anything like this. The two dust specs in the red boxes – they are large enough to show up without any adjustments in post – but look how many other spots show up after pushing the file. This is literally right out of the box and quickly putting on the 28 Lux – indoors, no moving air, and I used a blower to clean off any dust from the rear of the lens and the body cap before putting the lens on. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Interesting, mine arrived with a spot I could not remove. Figured perhaps it was oil off the shutter when it was going through final test. When I send the camera in late fall to Wetzlar I shall request a sensor cleaning as well (although I suspect they will need to do this anyway if they open up the camera to swap a board) Edited July 13, 2021 by jplomley 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted July 13, 2021 Share #227 Posted July 13, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) 3 minutes ago, jplomley said: Whoa, easy tiger! Not taking it out on anyone. Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion. Apologies if my comment spiked your blood pressure. Just simply pointing out for those late joining the thread that one formal response from the motherland has been posted. We shall see if that changes in lieu of the fact it is now Leica Miami involved, an outfit that does more marketing for Leica than Leica itself. "It's not you, it's me" 😂 I had just got off a frustrating phone call with Xfinity tech support, so I was thinking everyone's out to get me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted July 13, 2021 Share #228 Posted July 13, 2021 1 minute ago, jplomley said: Interesting, mine arrived with a spot I could not remove. Figured perhaps it was oil off the shutter when it was going through final test. When I send the camera in late fall to Wetzlar I shall request a sensor cleaning as well (although I suspect they will need to do this anyway if they open up the camera to swap a board) My first M10M spots actually did not resolve with the blower bulb, so they must have been like yours. The second M10M must have just been dust, thankfully. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jplomley Posted July 13, 2021 Share #229 Posted July 13, 2021 19 minutes ago, mmradman said: If people are prepared to pay premium over the mainstream mirrorless why bother with QC. Leica built reputation on robustness, at this rate reputation may be lost and it takes time to build one, pretty basic in any business and even all the PR by Leica star players like Peter Karbe May not be enough one day. I have personally spend lot of money on M cameras and lenses and happy to keep M lenses and use m246 however if anyone would ask me for purchase advice today or in the future I would be blunt with facts. Regrettably, I would have to agree. It seems to have gotten worse lately (COVID related)? I've been purchasing Leica kit for over 20 years without any issues whatsoever, including a trip into the S product line. All my modern Leica kit has been spot-on, except recently the M10M and a 28 SC Asph v2, the latter which proved to be un-calibratable by Leica USA, and so I just re-purchased another copy that was perfect out of the box (ironically, this copy made in Portugal). Sign of things to come with QC? Hard to say. My SL and now SL2 with L APO SC's are absolutely brilliant, not a single flaw. Have four lenses and two bodies in that product line which are solid workhorses. Really not sure whats going on right now with Leica, but I will not be buying for quite some time until I see evidence things have improved for the M product line. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jplomley Posted July 13, 2021 Share #230 Posted July 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, hdmesa said: "It's not you, it's me" 😂 I had just got off a frustrating phone call with Xfinity tech support, so I was thinking everyone's out to get me. All good, no worries sir, I can certainly appreciate a bad day. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobert Posted July 14, 2021 Share #231 Posted July 14, 2021 10 hours ago, hdmesa said: My M10M-LW arrived this morning, and I was surprised it has no sensor bifurcation artifact/line at all. I took the same kind of sky photos into Capture One and did +100 to Contrast, Dehaze, and Clarity – nothing – no line, no difference between halves. This one was manufactured April 2021. Since some M10Ms have this and some don't (me, @Gobert and presumably others) it must be some variance in the manufacturing of the sensor or of the electronics (a voltage variance issue had been mentioned as a possibility, but I can't remember if that was here or on Fred Miranda). Leica Miami did not hear back from Leica. I take that to assume Leica is not ready or willing to address the issue. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Glad that this nasty problem has been solved and you can finally enjoy the use of this camera. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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