A New Year Wish for the M System

[Dennis]

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3 hours ago, Steven said:

The possibility to close the shutter curtain while changing lens. Come on, you can do it on an M10 but not an SL2S? Pfff.......

😱

Outside ready for Niagara falls, but inside with no underwear 🤣

Edited February 23, 2021 by Dennis
bad english, sorry

[adan]

Here is a cutaway of the Leica M rangefinder/viewfinder installation.

Please draw a picture of where - exactly - a hybrid "slide-down" EVF screen is supposed to go. And where it would be stored when not in viewing position.

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[lct]

Nobody has ever made such a "hybrid" thing so far. What Fuji offers is zero RF and a mediocre EVF into a mediocre OVF. Matter of tastes but thanks no thanks.  

[lct]

Zero rangefinder in all that.

[Jeff S]

8 minutes ago, Steven said:

Surely the tech has involved (sic) and they can try harder. 

Sure, if not we would never have had the M8 or M9, both of which were not possible early on.  The additional challenge here is sheer space.  But never say never.

Jeff

[fotografr]

3 hours ago, lct said:

And the third group wants both. Not the first time Leica would have offered different variants of the same camera. 

And the fourth group wants a Carrera thrown in with every new M.

[Jeff S]

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Five possibilities already discussed, without the free car.

1. RF 

2. EVF

3. Both together... hybrid/dual viewing

4. Modernized (electronic?) RF

 5. Some combination of different versions, just like we have now (with/without screen, differing MP, mono/color, etc.

And leave it to Leica to surprise with a 6th unexpected outcome.

Jeff

[setuporg]

3 hours ago, fotografr said:

Now comes the hard part--waiting for the M11 to see which side gets their dream camera.

Ours!

[kkumpu]

So far after 3 weeks of owning and using M10-P, couple of things come to my mind:

- Possibility to re-arrange "Favorites menu" items. So that f.e, Format SD would always be first item on the menu. This can be achieved by removing all other items but it's not very practical use.

- Possibility to choose, which lenses are shown on f.e. Lens Detection -> Manual M menu. Now this also is a kind of nit-pick and would easily be fixed by 6-bit coding my lenses. But in my case, when I own 28, 50 and 90mm lenses, it's kinda frustrating to roll all the way up & down to find just my lenses.

- And please, fix that annoying freezing-issue where live-view is always on and only way to fix it is removing the battery. 

[adan]

4 hours ago, Steven said:

2. In the cockpit of a Gulfstream G650. The pilot called it a night display, surely it exists in many other planes too. It's a piece of transparent glass in front of the eyes of the pilot. When tilting the angle slightly, an electronic, colour display appears. Here's an idea for Leica!

Nice aircraft!

But its Enhanced Flight Vision system takes up about 10 times the volume of a Leica M camera (more if one counts the aircraft's camera). You didn't notice the projection system that actually produces the image on that fancy piece of glass (aka Head-Up Display or HUD).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_flight_vision_system

Try again.

[Cobram]

1 hour ago, kkumpu said:

- And please, fix that annoying freezing-issue where live-view is always on and only way to fix it is removing the battery. 

I have EVF on SL camera so yes, it is beneficial, but not an absolute need on M.

On contrary, I'm very very picky about freezing-issues. "Bullet proof" M10 will be perfect for me. Don't want to miss a shot because of my gear.

I really hope Leica will continue with M-E concept. I will whole heartedly buy M-E version of M10 with no mechanical or electronics problems. I need just a robust always ready M camera...

They can release M11 with more megapixels, EVF, etc... but M-E M10 with solved (reported) problems is the camera for me.🙂

[sinjun]

8 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Five possibilities already discussed, without the free car.

1. RF 

2. EVF

3. Both together... hybrid/dual viewing

4. Modernized (electronic?) RF

 5. Some combination of different versions, just like we have now (with/without screen, differing MP, mono/color, etc.

And leave it to Leica to surprise with a 6th unexpected outcome.

Jeff

Of these number 4 is most intriguing to me. Apparently Leica has held patents for some time for optoelectronic rangefinders, which open the possibility of user-calibration of different lenses - though I don't suppose it's very likely they will actually come to anything.

https://leicarumors.com/2015/10/14/leicas-patents-for-optoelectronic-rangefinder.aspx/#more-37877

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, sinjun said:

Of these number 4 is most intriguing to me. Apparently Leica has held patents for some time for optoelectronic rangefinders, which open the possibility of user-calibration of different lenses - though I don't suppose it's very likely they will actually come to anything.

https://leicarumors.com/2015/10/14/leicas-patents-for-optoelectronic-rangefinder.aspx/#more-37877

Already linked... post #418.

Jeff

[setuporg]

On 2/22/2021 at 8:53 AM, Steven said:

If I didn't shoot 50% stills 50% video with my SL2S, the SL35 and SL28 would be my two lenses. But soon after I infected you, I realised they were unable for video. M lenses are delightful for video ! I'm working on a little travel video from my trip in Colombia with the SL2S and 28 lux, ill try to post it soon to show you guys. 

 

This is very intriguing.  Is the M Lux better for video due to its silent and predictable manual focusing?

I found that I refocus the video using the back button and the noise the focusing motor generates get recorded every time.  OK for home videos but not for showing to the public?

[mujk]

13 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Five possibilities already discussed, without the free car.

1. RF 

2. EVF

3. Both together... hybrid/dual viewing

4. Modernized (electronic?) RF

 5. Some combination of different versions, just like we have now (with/without screen, differing MP, mono/color, etc.

And leave it to Leica to surprise with a 6th unexpected outcome.

Jeff

What about no built-in viewfinder at all, like the already mentioned Leica MD from 1964? I'm thinking a wireless connection to a smartphone only, a Google Glass type finder, or maybe an implant in the future. To be released on April 1.

[pippy]

I was thinking about how the near-perfect M-D Typ-262 might possibly be improved and there were two things (and I'm being perfectly serious here) which occurred to me with both ideas serving the same end-purpose and both, serendipitously, which would appeal to die-hard-stuck-in-the-mud-old-fogeys (such as myself)!

Although it has never once been an issue for me I can see how, in certain conditions (on a multi-day excursion in 'no-man's-land' for example), having a manually rechargeable battery could save the day.

So what I say is this; for the upcoming M11-D put the ISO dial back on the rear of the camera where it belongs! The ISO knob of the M10 series would revert to being a rewind-knob in terms of its design and, secondly, reinstate the central 'window' in its correct place on the front of the top-plate.

The twist (pun) of the first idea is that the 'rewind knob' will be part of a micro-electrical-generator-system (much like the wind-up radio / torch etc) which will be able to recharge the camera's battery! A few minutes cranking could be the difference between getting - or missing - a shot or three! As far as the 'window' is concerned it won't be used for frameline illumination but will be a mini-sized solar-panel! Just think; all those hours we spend strolling along the Promenade des Anglais might not be a complete waste of time after all and, instead, be excused as an ecologically-sound method of powering-up our Leicas!

It would also give Leica the chance to exploit offer-up some seriously cool re-issue opportunities! A canted rewind-knob such as found on the M4 etc. bodies would be the 'Standard Feature' and so would allow for the original diamond-faced style lift-up knob to be available to those fortunate to have very healthy coffers and with the added possibility of acquiring optional 'Limited-Edition' Rapid-Rewind Levers - and these latter can be a whole new range of accessories in their own right! Black Paint! Pitted-Chrome! Faux-Camouflage! Crushed Raspberry!...

"You Read it Here First!"

Philip.

EDIT : I've just realised that as the mini-solar-panel will be used for recharging the battery the central-window will after all, in fact, be responsible for frame-line illumination just as it always was in the past! How Trad-Mod-Retro-Cool is that?!

Edited February 23, 2021 by pippy

[lct]

2 minutes ago, Steven said:

Plus, if you're a Leica user, you can probably afford the A1

Hos does it work with WA M lenses? Does it have as thick a sensor stack as the other Sonys? 

[setuporg]

52 minutes ago, Steven said:

The truth is that if you want to shoot video with a autofocus today, the best hybrid camera on earth is the A1... Plus, if you're a Leica user, you can probably afford the A1

The problem with system-shopping is that you need everything else: a range of lenses, chargers, batteries, etc.  Leica glass is what keeps us here.  I'd rather wait for SLx to catch up.  My current use case for video are kids and both SL2 and Q2 work alright.  I'm glad I refrained from venturing into GFX100S over my existing X1D lineup for the same reason.  The glass is fine and the bodies will update eventually.

And Sony is the most antithetical to Leica, design/UX-wise.  But the performance for specific use cases could justify it.

[Cobram]

11 hours ago, pippy said:

I was thinking about how the near-perfect M-D Typ-262 might possibly be improved and there were two things (and I'm being perfectly serious here) which occurred to me with both ideas serving the same end-purpose and both, serendipitously, which would appeal to die-hard-stuck-in-the-mud-old-fogeys (such as myself)!

Although it has never once been an issue for me I can see how, in certain conditions (on a multi-day excursion in 'no-man's-land' for example), having a manually rechargeable battery could save the day.

So what I say is this; for the upcoming M11-D put the ISO dial back on the rear of the camera where it belongs! The ISO knob of the M10 series would revert to being a rewind-knob in terms of its design and, secondly, reinstate the central 'window' in its correct place on the front of the top-plate.

The twist (pun) of the first idea is that the 'rewind knob' will be part of a micro-electrical-generator-system (much like the wind-up radio / torch etc) which will be able to recharge the camera's battery! A few minutes cranking could be the difference between getting - or missing - a shot or three! As far as the 'window' is concerned it won't be used for frameline illumination but will be a mini-sized solar-panel! Just think; all those hours we spend strolling along the Promenade des Anglais might not be a complete waste of time after all and, instead, be excused as an ecologically-sound method of powering-up our Leicas!

It would also give Leica the chance to exploit offer-up some seriously cool re-issue opportunities! A canted rewind-knob such as found on the M4 etc. bodies would be the 'Standard Feature' and so would allow for the original diamond-faced style lift-up knob to be available to those fortunate to have very healthy coffers and with the added possibility of acquiring optional 'Limited-Edition' Rapid-Rewind Levers - and these latter can be a whole new range of accessories in their own right! Black Paint! Pitted-Chrome! Faux-Camouflage! Crushed Raspberry!...

"You Read it Here First!"

Philip.

EDIT : I've just realised that as the mini-solar-panel will be used for recharging the battery the central-window will after all, in fact, be responsible for frame-line illumination just as it always was in the past! How Trad-Mod-Retro-Cool is that?!

Very interesting idea Philip. Despite warning signs I still ran out of battery too many times 🙂 

Not related to the topic: It is a pleasure to read your posts. Full of interesting words. As english is not my first language I tend to check any new (to me) interesting word. This time is the word serendipitously. What a nice (latin based) word. Thank you for your thoughtfully (rich) written texts.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[fisheess]

On 2/23/2021 at 1:20 AM, Jeff S said:

We’ve also learned from Leica execs that the company has indeed experimented with hybrid  approaches, but resulted in acceptable compromises to both the RF and EVF...

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2017/02/the-leica-m10-a-discussion-with-stefan-daniel-and-jesko-von-oeynhausen/

Jeff

Thanks for the quote. This is a informative read.

From an engineering standpoint, the interview made a lot of sense. I think here in the forum many users without an engineering background can't see the limitations (and wish for too much. Don't hit me please😆) for the design of an M camera.

For everything we hope for in this thread, let's just hope a little bit more that Leica's engineering capability has improved over the years (a lot).