First M lens - Leica Elmarit 28mm f2.8 ASPH (latest) vs Zeiss Biogon 28mm f2.8

[28framelines]

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Hi folks,

I’ll be purchasing a Leica M-A in the new year, and I’m wondering which lens to get. I would love the Elmarit, but the reality is is that if the quality of the ZM lens is pretty great and the distortion is low (note: I want very little distortion so I can do portrait work on my fav focal length without getting weird images) I’ll probably opt for the Biogon because it’s much cheaper. What are people’s thoughts on the Zeiss? Or do I just drop the extra cash and get the Elmarit?

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[jaapv]

You will see no difference in distortion on either lens. The measured distortion is linear, which will not be visible unless you take shots with straight lines in  them, not in portraits and it will be corrected by lens profiles anyway.

The distortion you mean is perspective distortion and is caused by the subject being too close, which in turn is caused by the photographer attempting to frame the portrait correctly despite the wide angle of view from the short focal length. That will be the same -and pronounced- for both lenses.

In general, a  28 is not a lens to use if you want to take natural-looking portraiture. You need a focal length of 75-90 mm approx. for that purpose. That is not to say that a  skilled photographer will not get a striking result from time to time with a shorter or longer focal length, but those are special cases. If   your main purpose is portraiture, a 28 is simply the wrong lens to buy.

[Cobram]

Dear 28framelines,

I will repeat myself: used to own the best lens in Zeiss arsenal: ZM 35 1.4 Distagon. Sold it. Why? If you like Zeiss rendering I personally think Sony A7x + Zeiss lenses is a cheaper and better option.

Elmarit 28 lenses are TOP NOTCH regarding rendering and sharpness.

 

[wda]

Do you already have a body of portraiture work taken with a 28mm focal length ? If not, take Jaap's advice and choose a more appropriate focal-length.

In your shoes, I would go, unhesitatingly, for a 50mm lens. It is well-proven for general-purpose photography,  including portraiture.  Look for a recent Summicron or Summarit. Later, add a 90mm for heads and landscape details.

[tom.w.bn]

If the portrait style is environmental portrait, then 28 is not a bad choice and 90mm is clearly no option.

I have the Elmarit 28 and love the size, lens hood, 6-bit-coding, etc.  Sharpness and distortion should be comparable.

[caissa]

Leica produces excellent 28mm lenses (all apertures). So I see no need to buy the Zeiss.   If you want to save money you could also consider buying a used 28mm. I still use a pre Asph 28mm from the 90s. (The elmarit version 4). It is so good I never needed to replace it by the latest version.

Edited December 18, 2020 by caissa

[pedaes]

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7 hours ago, 28framelines said:

What are people’s thoughts on the Zeiss?

You will see no difference in image quality for considerably less money. The Zeiss is excellent lens. The only thing the Zeiss hasn't got is six bit coding, which you don't need with a M-A. Personally I think the Zeiss looks nicer, and you can get it in chrome.

The Zeiss 2.8 35mm is also excellent, and the 50mm f2 Planar outperforms the Summicron, albeit slightly more contrasty for good or bad.

Edited December 18, 2020 by pedaes

[jdlaing]

Before buying one of those look at a nice Leica Summarit.

[Ko.Fe.]

Zeiss quality? 

I never liked odd sound of focus helicoud. Didn't feel like quality. 

Focus pimple instead of focus tab feels rudimental. 

1/3 clicks were annoying, because I'm not landscaper but street, life photog. I adjust aperture as soon as light is changing.  

With only this lens as the lens you might get into famous Zeiss wobble soon. 

The only good  thing is rendering. 

With film here is no reason to get into the latest, more expensive Elmarit. Version III is super lens on film. Just its size is on the bigger side. IV is smaller, if I'm not mistaken and also super lens on film. 

 

[Harpomatic]

I use the Zeiss Biogon and tried the Elmarit Asph version 1. I kept the Zeiss: it’s a fantastic lens, small enough, great handling. I own three Zeiss lenses and had at least another 8 samples over time, never had any of the issues described by Ko.Fe., only positive experiences. They are well built, and differently to the Leica lenses, consistent with focus feel and aperture ring resistance! Leica is all over the place there. 
Focus ring as opposed to tab is personal preference, I love a focus ring. The focus nub is a great compromise for me, does the job as a tab if needed and gives a reference point for zone focusing, leaves full freedom for focus ring use.

[pedaes]

32 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said:

The only good  thing is rendering.

Got the most important thing right then.

I personally think the the machined in focus tab very elegant  and comfortable to use. All my Zeiss lenses are/have been silent when focusing.

[pippy]

Performance of both is stellar so that is of no matter.

My ha'pennyworth (for when I was in the same situation) was that it mainly came down to ergonomics and partly financial.

Ergonomics first;

The Elmarit asph won out (for me) because it is noticeably smaller; there is essentially no viewfinder blockage even when the hood is fitted (as mine always is); it is slightly lighter; it has half-stop clicks and it takes 39mm filters (which size it shares with most of my 21mm, 35mm, 50mm and 90mm Leitz lenses and which I use very often for b'n'w work). The Biogon is, conversely, noticeably larger; there is a fair amount of v/f blockage - especially when the hood is used; it is slightly heavier; has 1/3 stop clicks (which is a feature I hate with a passion) and it takes 46mm filters.

Secondly financial;

I picked up a near-mint V1 asph for almost exactly the same price as I would have paid for a new Biogon. If I decide to sell my Elmarit anytime soon I will actually have made a profit as the Elmarit is at the very least keeping up with inflation and, at the moment, is considerably up on the price paid. Had I bought the Biogon it would now be worth around half the asking price.

Either is capable of producing excellent-quality work; you just need to decide on what is relevant to your preferences and requirements.

Good luck whichever way you go!

Philip.

Edited December 18, 2020 by pippy

[Al Brown]

Great choice on the focal length for the first optic.
This is the answer you were looking for: GET.THE.LEICA.LENS.
Coz you will always wonder "What if I bought the Elmarit after all?"
Thank me later.

[28framelines]

Haha thank you for all the responses! To answer questions about what type of portraiture: definitely environmental. Think Joe Greer, but without much of his skill! 😂

as for the distortion I was talking about: I’m coming from the Fujifilm xf18mm f2 (27mm FF equiv.) lens, which has distortion this way and that all the way to Sunday. Most people hate the lens, but I really enjoy it. That being said, it really tends to warp things (not perspective distortion, but lens distortion). 
 

lastly, some of you mentioned pairing it with a 50mm, and I can’t agree more! My current lens setup is the FF equivalent of a 28/50 setup. I just happen to prefer 28 for most things.

I’m going to do a bit more research, maybe see them in person. The Zeiss still seems compelling, and maybe the ASPH v1 might be a good option, but I really would prefer compact and my understanding of the V1 ASPH Elmarit is that it isn’t as compact. Who knows, maybe I’ll end up with the Elmarit anyway, because as some of you stated, I might simply asking myself “what if” all the time haha.

[Gobert]

Why should I buy the Leitz while I can buy an Elmarit?

[pippy]

27 minutes ago, 28framelines said:

...maybe the ASPH v1 might be a good option, but I really would prefer compact and my understanding of the V1 ASPH Elmarit is that it isn’t as compact...

Eh? I suspect you are thinking about an earlier non-asph Elmarit. The V1 asph is TINY. According to our old pal Ken Rockwell (at least at the time he reviewed the lens);

"It's the smallest M lens Leica has ever made. It's their first 28mm which doesn't get in the way of the viewfinder..."

Here's a link to a snap showing the relative sizes of the v1 Elmarit asph and the Biogon;

https://www.kenrockwell.com/zeiss/zm/28mm-f28.htm#comp

Full review here;

https://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/28mm-f28.htm

Philip.

Edited December 18, 2020 by pippy

[Matlock]

7 minutes ago, pippy said:

"It's the smallest M lens LEICA has ever made. It's their first 28mm which doesn't get in the way of the viewfinder..."

 

I suppose that is technically correct but the Elmarit-C 40mm is much, much smaller.

 

[J.Nordvik]

22 minutes ago, pippy said:

Eh? I suspect you are thinking about an earlier non-asph Elmarit. The V1 asph is TINY. According to our old pal Ken Rockwell (at least at the time he reviewed the lens);

"It's the smallest M lens Leica has ever made. It's their first 28mm which doesn't get in the way of the viewfinder..."

Here's a link to a snap showing the relative sizes of the v1 Elmarit asph and the Biogon;

https://www.kenrockwell.com/zeiss/zm/28mm-f28.htm#comp

Full review here;

https://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/28mm-f28.htm

Philip.

The Biogon is much bigger than the Elmarit, but it is not that big compared to other camera systems. My picture shows a Biogon and a MFT 17mm.

This Biogon was the first lens I bought after I went digital with M8. It was much cheaper than a used Elmarit and it was in silver. I have never liked the size of this lens since I knew the Elmarit was so much smaller. I also miss the focus tab, and half-stop aperture stop.

When it comes to the optical qualities I think the Emarit is better, but I have not compared them.

I am not wiling to pay for the upgrade to a Elmarit, since it is one of my least used focal length. Prefer 21mm, or if I want a compromise a 35mm. My main lens is 50mm.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Mr.Prime]

As you are looking for new lenses for your camera - first off congrats on getting the new Leica M !

I've not much experience with m-mount glass but if it's helpful I will mention that I've picked up a couple of lenses now from Voigtlander specifically because I've not been comfortable with Leica pricing. So far I've been very pleased with the results and I have found the build quality of these lenses to be very good. I have a 35mm/1.4 and a skopar 25/f4 (screw mount so not relevant here). I think the Voigtlander range can be an alternative to Zeiss in your considerations.

 

My recommendation is for 50mm focal length, it's versatile, suitable for portraits in my experience where you want more than just a face and shoulders (otherwise longer, even 135mm would be nice if you can focus it accurately).

Edited December 18, 2020 by Mr.Prime

[28framelines]

1 hour ago, pippy said:

Eh? I suspect you are thinking about an earlier non-asph Elmarit. The V1 asph is TINY. According to our old pal Ken Rockwell (at least at the time he reviewed the lens);

"It's the smallest M lens Leica has ever made. It's their first 28mm which doesn't get in the way of the viewfinder..."

Here's a link to a snap showing the relative sizes of the v1 Elmarit asph and the Biogon;

https://www.kenrockwell.com/zeiss/zm/28mm-f28.htm#comp

Full review here;

https://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/28mm-f28.htm

Philip.

Wait wait. I thought the v1 ASPH was not the same form factor as the one that was released in 2016. What are their differences?