Can we expect an updated lens road map from Leica

[Jk1002]

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With the wide options from Leica for the SL being slightly overdue, can we expect an updated lens road map or is this something they wont be doing anymore since the system is more mature.

Would be keen on a 24-70 F2.8 but would settle on the 24-90 if we cant expect anything soon.

Cheers

JK

[adan]

I can't help regarding a roadmap overall. But I would not hold my breath waiting for a 24-70 f/2.8.

Reasons:

1) Advent of the SL2-S with ISO 100K (and the existence of the 75 and 90 Summicrons) kind of makes a faster aperture per se moot.

2) Not sure how much "bokeh" gain (i.e. size of blur circles) there would be between a 90 f/4 and a 70 f/2.8

3) The last time Leica tried to make a fast constant-aperture wide-tele zoom in-house, it was the 35-70 f/2.8 for the R system (1998). It was A) excellent, but B ) so darned expensive to produce that they lost money on every one (even at Leica prices), and abandoned it after only 200-300 units. Replaced with an easier-to-build 28-90 f/2.8-f/4.5.

Experience can be a harsh teacher!

Edited December 16, 2020 by adan

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[Steven]

3 hours ago, Jk1002 said:

Would be keen on a 24-70 F2.8

Have you ever heard anything of this lens before ? Or you made it up ? 

[Steven]

2 hours ago, adan said:

But I would not hold my breath waiting for a 24-70 f/2.8

I entirely disagree with this, and there are two very serious reasons why, but before I tell, I need someone to answer my post #3

[Slender]

No Steven, there is no 24-70 planned. Why when Sigma and Panasonic offer it? And also double why when you have the best zoom lens ever built in the portfolio already?

It has a name, its great, if it wasn't my lens already, I would date it = Leica SL Vario-Elmarit 24-90 f2.8-4.

Sharp as a 90M, pleasing bokeh as a 50 1.4 asph.... I struggle to believe how good it actually is. As said elswhere, it is on my SL all the time, the M lenses stay at home.

The only other SL lenses I would consider adding to it would be 50 1.4 and 21/28 f2....

18 lenses, 4 asphericals, only one moving element for focusing = ultra fast/silent AF, purely internal means no focus breahting at all for video work.... and close to parfocal (almost no zoom lens is purely parfocal but crazy expensive/huge television lenses)... although I rarely zoom during takes.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Slender

[Steven]

3 hours ago, Slender said:

No Steven, there is no 24-70 planned. Why when Sigma and Panasonic offer it? And also double why when you have the best zoom lens ever built in the portfolio already?

It has a name, its great, if it wasn't my lens already, I would date it = Leica SL Vario-Elmarit 24-90 f2.8-4.

Sharp as a 90M, pleasing bokeh as a 50 1.4 asph.... I struggle to believe how good it actually is. As said elswhere, it is on my SL all the time, the M lenses stay at home.

The only other SL lenses I would consider adding to it would be 50 1.4 and 21/28 f2....

18 lenses, 4 asphericals, only one moving element for focusing = ultra fast/silent AF, purely internal means no focus breahting at all for video work.... and close to parfocal (almost no zoom lens is purely parfocal but crazy expensive/huge television lenses)... although I rarely zoom during takes.

Just to get this out of the way first, I know that the 24-90 is an exceptional lens, and has the reputation of bringing prime quality to a zoom. But, something is coming....... 

[Kim Dahl]

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???

[Steven]

7 hours ago, adan said:

1) Advent of the SL2-S with ISO 100K (and the existence of the 75 and 90 Summicrons) kind of makes a faster aperture per se moot.

With all due respect, this is in my opinion completely wrong. On the contrary: the announcement of an SL2-S makes a 24-70 2.8 even more relevant. You see, while the 24-90 is an excellent lens for stills, a variable aperture is not ideal for video, despite the implementation of floating ISO. With the SL2S aimed at videographer and cinematographer, a zoom lens with constant aperture makes more sense than ever. 

As a matter of fact, I have been told that a 28-70 f2.8 SL lens is coming sooner than you think (I am told as soon as mid January), before the 21/24/28, and that it will be nearly half the size of the 24-90. If this is true, it will become an instant best seller. The source of this is the same person who told me 1 month before that the SL2-S was going to be announced on 10.12, when all the internet had no idea until just two days before. Let's see. 

Slender, sorry mate. It seems like the folks at Leica are determined to make your kit obsolete 😂

[Slender]

I am not worried, because I cant imagine it being smaller than diameter 82mm and certainly not lighter than the summicron primes (750g and +).
And I happily use the 70-90mm range quite often (count this as 24-135 thanks to 20MP APS-C crop 😇).

Can't be bothered to carry my 90-M + adapter next to this... Or the price might be even higher for what is essentially half a stop faster at 50mm, so should I worry? It's not going to make my lens any lesser even when leica pulls out this magic hat trick... But there are well informed people who says konica/minolta is responsible (still) for (some) zoom designs for Leica (90-280)... so if it's an outside job, then yeah, why not complement the more accessible SL2-s with a more "classic" zoom to go with. In video with APS-C at the far end or FF at the wide end, that is plentyfull enough I suppose. Being in the still end of the trade mostly (for now), I can't imagine going back to the Canon days feeling of 24/70 + 24MP, at least for what I do at the moment. For small stuff, there is the Leica M 😌

Leica should (have) concentrate(d) on is making a decent 16-35 f2.8. The current offer looks stunning, but if you dont like variable aperture this one is the worst offender at f3.5-4.5 😭 . That is where Canon really nailed it with their 15-35 f2.8 WITH stabilisation 🤯.... and you can't use front filter on the Sigma 14-24. 

And the people waiting for primes will be (are) upset...

((at 90 on a foggy/rainy day))

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Edited December 16, 2020 by Slender

[Jk1002]

9 hours ago, Steven said:

Have you ever heard anything of this lens before ? Or you made it up ? 

I am just asking, I feel is is one of the logical next steps in the offering.  I am still curious why there is no update to the roadmap. Maybe they consider the lenses sufficient developed that it is not worth for them to drop new lenses every year. But otherwise it could be a good advertising tool to draw more people into the system.

 

JK

[Pixeleater]

11 hours ago, Steven said:

I entirely disagree with this, and there are two very serious reasons why, but before I tell, I need someone to answer my post #3

Thorsten Overgaard talks about it as the world's best zoom ever made during its time. https://www.overgaard.dk/Leica-Camera-Typ-601.html

Leica 35-70mm Vario-Elmarit-R ASPH f/2.8 on a Leica R9.

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Edited December 16, 2020 by Pixeleater

[otto.f]

A new roadmap of Leica lenses would probably contain quite a few marvellous lenses which are discontinued, some 24’s for M for instance. Such a shame, not a reason to be proud of such a roadmap.

[Einst_Stein]

8 hours ago, Steven said:

With all due respect, this is in my opinion completely wrong. On the contrary: the announcement of an SL2-S makes a 24-70 2.8 even more relevant. You see, while the 24-90 is an excellent lens for stills, a variable aperture is not ideal for video, despite the implementation of floating ISO. With the SL2S aimed at videographer and cinematographer, a zoom lens with constant aperture makes more sense than ever. 

As a matter of fact, I have been told that a 28-70 f2.8 SL lens is coming sooner than you think (I am told as soon as mid January), before the 21/24/28, and that it will be nearly half the size of the 24-90. If this is true, it will become an instant best seller. The source of this is the same person who told me 1 month before that the SL2-S was going to be announced on 10.12, when all the internet had no idea until just two days before. Let's see. 

Slender, sorry mate. It seems like the folks at Leica are determined to make your kit obsolete 😂

I seriously doubt if 24-70mm f2.8 will be real. If Leica ever built 24-70mm with f2.8  at 70mm, I bet it will be something like 24-70mm f2.0-2.8. There is not point to lose the f2.0 at 24mm to fake it a constant aperture.

[jplomley]

They keep pushing back the 21-24-28 trio of APO Summicrons; I wonder if the prime lenses in general are not selling well and so they have decided to delay production/launch of the remaining optics. They seems to have no problems with designing and delivering lenses nobody wants (e.g. recent 75 and 90 M Summilux), or a plethora of new bodies (M10-R, M10M, S3, SL2-S), and yet we continue to wait a ridiculous amount of time for the L wide angles. Clearly, L lenses are not a priority for the company. WTF!

Edited December 16, 2020 by jplomley

[Steven]

1 hour ago, Einst_Stein said:

I seriously doubt if 24-70mm f2.8 will be real. If Leica ever built 24-70mm with f2.8  at 70mm, I bet it will be something like 24-70mm f2.0-2.8. There is not point to lose the f2.0 at 24mm to fake it a constant aperture.

non sense

[Jeff S]

17 minutes ago, jplomley said:

They keep pushing back the 21-24-28 trio of APO Summicrons; I wonder if the prime lenses in general are not selling well and so they have decided to delay production/launch of the remaining optics. They seems to have no problems with designing and delivering lenses nobody wants (e.g. recent 75 and 90 M Summilux), or a plethora of new bodies (M10-R, M10M, S3, SL2-S), and yet we continue to wait a ridiculous amount of time for the L wide angles. Clearly, L lenses are not a priority for the company. WTF!

The increasingly bitter Mr. Puts now considers the whole L mount a mistake...

https://photo.imx.nl/blog/files/d8f487a9d79d7573c0cda2174d2017d9-171.html
 

But then he’s soured on digital overall. I do wonder, though, how sales are doing.  I, for one, really like the SL2 as well as my two zooms and SL75.  I hope more lenses are coming, even if later than anticipated.  Maybe COVID has had an impact as well, or maybe the logistics of optimizing design and production of the wides have presented challenges that Karbe has more generally discussed regarding the complicated L lenses.

I would consider a 28-70 in lieu of the 24-90, if offered, especially if smaller with non-telescoping zoom.  The 90-280 is better at 90 anyway, and the 75 can be cropped or altered with a few steps.  That might, however, open the door to a 21 or 24, although wide shooting is an infrequent requirement for me.

Jeff

[matted]

Speaking personally I would much rather have the extra versatility of the 24-90 with variable aperture than a constant aperture 28-70, especially for video work. 28-70 is just too narrow a range for me to be useful as a zoom. 24-70 2.8 perhaps, but then it will be nearly the same size as the existing 24-90.

 

I will be shocked if Leica releases a zoom before the wide primes but as long as the primes make it out eventually then having more choice is not a bad thing in the end so I would not mind being wrong. It would be quite odd if they announced a surprise lens only 1 month after a new camera body...

 

 

[beewee]

I’m also a bit doubtful of a fixed aperture zoom coming. Peter Karbe had mentioned in a somewhat recent presentation (in the last 6 months) that the diameter of a zoom lens is dictated by the maximum aperture at the tele end and that with a fixed aperture, the lens would be ‘leaving something on the table’ on the wide end that would go to waste.

One other thing to consider is that Leica seems to have decided to keep the front filter size more standardized for the SL-line. E67 for primes and E82 for zooms. I think it would be a bit out of character for Leica to release a new zoom that would use a front filter size smaller than E82. I’m not sure if a 28-70/2.8 would need a E82 filter thread. Maybe same E82 filter but shorter to be smaller?

I too am hoping the wide angle primes come sooner than later but I’ve been told recently to not expect any until second half of 2021.

Edited December 16, 2020 by beewee

[Einst_Stein]

2 hours ago, Steven said:

non sense

LOL!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Einst_Stein]

7 hours ago, Pixeleater said:

Thorsten Overgaard talks about it as the world's best zoom ever made during its time. https://www.overgaard.dk/Leica-Camera-Typ-601.html

Leica 35-70mm Vario-Elmarit-R ASPH f/2.8 on a Leica R9.

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

I guess a big change of game in digital is the lens correction. I assume this makes it easier to design a good lens, although it also means more challenge to stay ahead over competitors.