Jono Slack Review: Leica SL2-S

[Chaemono]

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Holy crap, I'm just looking at ISO 100 to 6400 SL2-S and S1 files with the same lens. The SL2-S sensor is way better. Its files show more DR at ISO 100 OOC but there the S1 can keep up since base ISO can be pushed hard in post. But at ISO 6400, the SL2-S sensor pulls ahead for detail and color fidelity. The S1 sensor looks like old tech by comparison. I'll post links to download the RAW files in the thread I started but likely reference them here.

[helged]

2 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Holy crap, I'm just looking at ISO 100 to 6400 SL2-S and S1 files with the same lens. The SL2-S sensor is way better. Its files show more DR at ISO 100 OOC but there the S1 can keep up since base ISO can be pushed hard in post. But at ISO 6400, the SL2-S sensor pulls ahead for detail and color fidelity. The S1 sensor looks like old tech by comparison. I'll post links to download the RAW files in the thread I started but likely reference them here.

What about S5 vs SL2-S? 

[Chaemono]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb helged:

What about S5 vs SL2-S? 

S5 I’ll take out tomorrow with the SL2-S but the only advantage the S5 has over the S1 is less noise at high ISO when the files are pushed. But here I’m talking about detail and color fidelity. Wait till you see. I’ll post the ISO 6400 files in this thread in a bit and then continue tomorrow. This is indeed a brand new sensor. I thought it was just marketing talk. I’ll post a link to download the two files, too. Give me 30 minutes. 

 

[vikasmg]

7 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

I'm not sure why you have the need to shoot continuous focus in low light. I selectively only look for correct light (natural light) to pop my subject against a deliberately created dark and blur background like the pics I took below with SL2 on AFC tracking.

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stork billed kingfisher 2 - 1010052 by sillbeers15

Nice shot there!

I have to say I’ve not used continuous autofocus much but I can in fact think of uses for it.  A lot of things (including kids) move rapidly whether the light is low or not 🙂

[hillavoider]

9 hours ago, BernardC said:

Same battery, but a different camera. Here is what the technical data says:

SL2: 1860 mAh (min.), approx. 370 recordings (based on CIPA standard, without EVF);

SL2-S: 1860 mAh (min.); (...) Approx. 510 shots (according to CIPA standard, with auto power-off 10s), approx. 1430 shots (according to CIPA stan-dard, adjusted shooting cycle*, with auto power-off 5s)*Alternating: switch on, one exposure every 3s, switch off after 10 exposures, 5min waiting time; switch on, one exposu-re every 3s, switch off after 50 exposures, 5min waiting time

 

That's around 30% better, which is significant. Mind you, the SL2 has improved somewhat since it was released, so maybe it would score better with the latest firmware.

The other thing that has changed since the SL2 was released is that we now know that it can be charged/powered via USB, so you can pack a cheap power pack in your bag if you know you will be shooting thousands of exposures (and don't have enough spare batteries).

Don’t see how that will help with 4K video or rapid shooting 

[Chaemono]

Ok, highjacking Jono's thread just for these two ISO 6400, low-light, high contrast scene shots. The SL2-S files are bigger for a reason. They contain more information and it shows. 

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-VRrRQh/

Look at the boy's tie, the girl's shirt in the middle, and the girl's scarf on the right. Also, notice the green tint in the upper left-hand corner in the S1 picture. It's not a WB thing.

S1 + APO 50 Summicron-SL processed in LR the same, Exposure slightly differently to match and in Topaz DeNoise AI in Low Light mode Remove Noise 13, Enhance Sharpness 27, Recover Original Detail 34. RAW file download here: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g524689324-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=HxI2IQbXXdjAs0HMBa9eQMZXfgu230yqdVclhf-qr7Q=

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ISO 6400 f/2.8 @1/4000 sec.

SL2-S + APO 50 Summicron-SL processed in LR the same, Exposure slightly differently to match and in Topaz DeNoise AI in Low Light mode Remove Noise 13, Enhance Sharpness 27, Recover Original Detail 34. DNG file download here: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g391720725-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=CtGH_FH3uBLkKSMOKAl0GenbpZNYqu_NeEkP-rDwN7U=ISO 6400 f/2.8 @1/4000 sec.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Chaemono

[Chaemono]

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Now crops from the unprocessed files. Notice how the SL2--S captures more details in the shadow part of the boy's tie.

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-VRrRQh/

S1

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SL2-S

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Chaemono

[Chaemono]

Now crops from the processed files. Who needs 47 MPx? Look at the details in the SL2-S crop.

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-VRrRQh/

S1

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SL2-S

[Chaemono]

It’s interesting that the reds in the SL2-S skew towards the magenta, but the tans look great, much better, warmer than in the S1 picture where they look too cool. This is my main issue with the S5, too. The SL2-S to me has the best skin tones of any FF camera while one doesn’t need to mess up the reds and make them skew towards orange to achieve that. 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Chaemono

[jplomley]

1 hour ago, Chaemono said:

 

Now crops from the processed files. Who needs 47 MPx? Look at the details in the SL2-S crop.

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-VRrRQh/

S1

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SL2-S

47 MPx allows finer resolution in prints. Thats the main difference. SL2 for landscapes and SL2-S for street, etc.

[Chaemono]

BTW, the Maestro III and 24 MPx make for super snappy shooting. The camera feels faster than one can adjust the settings. 

[BernardC]

14 hours ago, hillavoider said:

Don’t see how that will help with 4K video or rapid shooting 

To be clear: the battery life figures clearly indicate that the SL2-S is different from the SL2. There is no reason to jump to the conclusion that the SL2-S will have the same power limitations that the SL2 had (with its original firmware).

[Chaemono]

Really excited about this camera for stills. Just shot the SL2-S and the SL2 side by side with the same lens and I have to say, I like the sharpness of the that 24 MPx sensor, the AWB by the camera, the skin tones and the colors A LOT. Will post them in the thread I started. 

[jonoslack]

51 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Really excited about this camera for stills. Just shot the SL2-S and the SL2 side by side with the same lens and I have to say, I like the sharpness of the that 24 MPx sensor, the AWB by the camera, the skin tones and the colors A LOT. Will post them in the thread I started. 

Hi There!

I'm really glad you're enjoying it - nice to see you pleased about a new Leica!

All the very best

[Chaemono]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb jonoslack:

Hi There!

I'm really glad you're enjoying it - nice to see you pleased about a new Leica!

All the very best

It’s the best all-round FF camera, period...unless one shoots sports. 

[Photoworks]

Looks like it has better details than the Panasonic. But what about the Moire?

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[lx1713]

On 12/10/2020 at 10:04 PM, jonoslack said:

Leica introduced the SL2 just about a year ago (on November 6th 2019), with what’s been happening since it seems more like 100 years ago!

I was initially rather grumpy about it (and I quote):

The SL still fulfils all my requirements, and I’m still in love with the interface. So why would I want something different, and let’s be honest - how often does one really NEED 47mp. Added to which the strap lugs on the SL2 stick out, and it only has 3 buttons on the back (rather than the 4 on the SL), and they have writing on them!

You can read the rest of the review: https://www.slack.co.uk/leica-sl2.html

I had three SL2 cameras to test spanning the period from January 2019 until September (with a few gaps). In the end I was convinced that the new camera was a real improvement, slowly discovering that I really did ‘need’ 47 mp and I soon bought my own SL2.

Today Leica are introducing the Leica SL2-S, which is certainly the camera I would have wanted back then. The new camera is directed primarily at videographers and photographers who are more interested in speed or file size than they are in high resolution. Photojournalists, Event and wildlife photographers spring to mind. The new ‘stealth’ look with the blackened out Leica points in that direction.

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I only had the SL2-S for a couple of weeks at the end of August and the start of September this year, so this article is based on a relatively short time with the camera. I’m not going to do a detailed write up of the body and design, or of the operation of the camera, as these features are the same as the SL2.

What’s different?

Photography

The SL2-S has a brand new back-lit BSI-CMOS sensor with 24MP of resolution. It is capable of shooting 9 frames per second with the mechanical shutter and 25 using the HS electronic shutter. The SL2 also does 9 fps with the mechanical shutter, but only 24 in HS Mode. As the file sizes are much smaller on the SL2-S and the buffer is the same 4GB, this means that you can shoot many more shots in a burst (largely controlled by the speed of the SD card). I didn’t have a very fast SD card to test, but Leica claim that you can carry on shooting at 9 fps (mechanical shutter) pretty much until the card is full.

There will be a firmware upgrade in the first part of 2021 which will have improved AF Eye Detection will be coming a little later There will also be a transparent ‘overlay’ function so you can perfectly repeat the alignment of the previous image (hopefully it will come to the SL2 later on).

Videography

Here the changes are more notable The Leica SL2-S shoots 10-bit 4:2:2 video with Leica’s L-LOG gamma at frame rates up to 60fps. Unlike the SL2 there is no limit to recording time with the new camera (beyond that imposed by internal or external memory).

The new firmware will allow segmenting video into 1 minute chunks (to avoid data loss). It will also allow internal 10 bit 4K/60p and 50p with HEVC video compression and have an individual Viewing-LUT upload function.

There will also be an integrated waveform monitor and automatic follow focus.

The Price

The SL2-S will be €1500 cheaper than the SL2 (€4500 as opposed to €5990) at the time of writing I don’t have UK or US prices.

The Paint

The only visible difference is the stealthy black writing on the front of the camera (perhaps Leica should have blacked out the red dot as well). In fact the writing is in gloss paint, but the body in matt (like the SL2)

What’s the same

Apart from the sensor and the price, pretty much everything is the same, same body, same processor with the same buffer and the same shot to shot times. The same weather sealing and image stabilisation. The same 5.76 million dot EVF with 0.78x magnification and the same 2,1 million dot LCD display.

High ISO

Sadly I’m not qualified to test or write about the camera’s video features so I’ll stick to discussing the image quality of the new sensor. In the limited time I had it seemed most relevant to check out the high ISO characteristics of the new sensor. To that end I set up my trusty tripod in our rather dark sitting room to take some images of books. Here is the scene:

This was shot with incident daylight seeping through a north facing window - difficult lighting conditions indeed.

The SL2-S goes up to 100,000 ISO, but rather than leave the other side blank I’ve compared it with 50,000 ISO on the SL2:

The SL2-S was so obviously much better at 100,000 than the SL2 at 50 I’ve done another comparison with the SL2 at 25,000 ISO. Here perhaps the extra resolution gives the SL2 the edge, however, even at 25,000 ISO there is some minor banding on the SL2, more at least than there is in the SL2-S at 100,000.

 

This is an impressive improvement, closer to two stops than to one, and something that street and low light shooters are going to appreciate. Even if you would want to avoid 100,000 ISO, 25,000 is really pretty good.

What’s in a name

So, what does the S in SL2-S stand for? I’m afraid we aren’t going to get a definitive answer to that, it could be Speed or Sensitivity, or perhaps even Stealth or Small (file size), or all of the above. I’ve asked the question of those who ought to know and they aren’t telling!

Shooting with M lenses

Of course the main purpose of the camera is for fast AF and video, but I know that quite a lot of people are going to be interested in how well it does with M lenses. Sadly I didn’t have time to do any very careful comparisons of corner definition and vignetting with the SL2, but the general impression was that the SL2-S was at least as good and probably better.

However focusing was better on the SL2-S, especially when zooming in on the EVF (which has a slight visual susurration on the SL2) it also seemed that nailing focus generally was easier on the newer camera. This might be because of the lower resolution, but whatever the cause it was tangible. I have established that the SL2 and SL2-S have the same sensor stack. It would be nice to do a proper comparison, but not having a camera I’m going to have to leave that up to others!

Who is it for?

Well, as Leica say in their press release:

“The SL2-S is the perfect choice for customers who favour fast operation over the exceptionally high resolution of the Leica SL2”

But I think it’s going to appeal to a wider audience than that, especially at the considerably reduced price point. I think the very good high ISO, together with fast AF (and eye focus in the spring) is going to make the camera very popular with all kind of wedding and event photographers, especially with the ability to mix and match Leica, Panasonic and Sigma lenses (there really are a lot of L mount lenses around). If you’re going to shoot 2,000 shots at a wedding, you really don’t want them to be 85mb per shot (40 is bad enough!). Added to that you really don’t need the resolution.

More than that, quite a lot of people are already using the SL2 with M lenses, and I think a lot more will find the SL2-S even more attractive. I’ve heard from many saying that they really don’t want 48mp, mainly because of the storage requirements, but also for the heavier processing load.

The new fast M lenses (90 Summilux, 75 Noctilux, 50 Noctilux) all handle better on an SL body and for many people focusing on an EVF based camera is simpler than using a rangefinder, the SL2-S is less challenging to focus with M lenses has a better magnification experience.

Conclusion

The Leica SL2-S has much improved video, with better things promised with firmware upgrades in the near future.

It is also a fine stills camera, allowing really fast shot to shot times and extremely good high ISO. It’s great to focus with M lenses and produces excellent image quality. For many people 24mp is still the sweet spot for resolution.

Added to all of this it’s considerably cheaper than the SL2, so it’s likely to attract new Leica users.

Once again Leica have produced a sensible and interesting camera which is going to appeal to a lot of different users, both old and new.

Sample Images Leica SL2-S

Thanks, Jono, this is the first post on the forum that I couldn't decide to "like" or "thank" you.☺️😊

[ruskkyle]

Can anyone verify whether 4K 50p video is cropped to APS-C or full frame?

Also whether this is something that’s likely to change when the Spring Firmware update arrives.

Many thanks.

[verwackelt]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Photoworks:

Looks like it has better details than the Panasonic. But what about the Moire?

Should give a try to C1.
I find the moireefilter good…

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Chaemono]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Photoworks:

Looks like it has better details than the Panasonic. But what about the Moire?

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Not as pronounced as they show with LUF compression above. That's why I include a link to less compressed JPEGs: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-VRrRQh/ in the posts. It can be dealt with in LR or Photoshop.