50 mm 1.4 or F2

[David_miller70]

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Sorry, this must have been asked before but my search did n’t pull anything up in the first few pages.

I’m upgrading from the Fuji X series in which I always went for the fastest lens variant irrespective of size / weight.

I’m taking a different tact with Leica, especially at the wider end and I’ve started with the 35 F2 and plan on getting the 21 F3.4

However, I’m struggling to decide on the 50 mm, is it still the f 2 I should go for or is the f 1.4 brighter enough weigh better enough bokeh to be worth it.

Thanks, David

[Jeff S]

Jeff

[astrostl]

This is usually going to come down to bokeh over brightness, esp. on M bodies with higher ISO tolerances. That has plenty to do with lens characteristics themselves though, and not just aperture: the 50/2 APO is commonly perceived as smooth while some faster lenses are commonly perceived as nervous, etc.

[Jean-Michel]

Watch for the onslaught of of opinions and deeply held beliefs of Summicronians and Summiluxians! I am a Summicronian myself, owning both a 'Rigid' purchased new over 5 decades ago and a current one. I am happy with f/2 but perhaps f/1.4 hold unseen promises!  Either lens will be more than fine.

[ktmrider2]

Have owned the latest version of the 50 Summicron since the mid 1990's and it is a great lens (just got the first version with the purchase of a 3f about two months ago and it is a great lens as well.).  Honestly I don't feel like paying Leitz prices for their optics these days.  I purchased a 50f1.2 Nokton about two years ago and it is an amazing lens (now available as a 35f1.2 and 40f1.2 in the same design).  lf you are pairing it up with a digital Leica, I would go with the Summicron to save weight as the high ISO available today negates the need for super fast glass unless desired for shallow depth of field or to impress the natives.

Edited November 30, 2020 by ktmrider2

[wda]

This is a deeply subjective decision. Bokeh is only one factor and seldom the dominant factor. Unless you need the speed of the Summilux,  the Summicron would be my choice. It is a superb versatile lens of modest weight and bulk. It is based on a design of proven merit and once featured as the standard fast lens with a rangefinder body when new. I have both lenses and intended selling my older Summicron when I added my Summilux. But I saw a place for both lenses, using the latter when facing low-light situations.

Edited November 30, 2020 by wda

[pippy]

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Welcome to the forum.

We don't know enough about your needs to give truly accurate advice.

If you need to be shooting at f1.4 you will need a Summilux. Otherwise a Summicron will be a wiser choice.

Philip.

Edited November 30, 2020 by pippy

[lct]

Simple question: do you need f/1.4? If yes you know the answer. If not, better get a 50/2 it will be smaller and lighter.

[Peter Kilmister]

The 50mm Summicron APO is so much better than the much larger and heavier Summilux that I sold my Summilux. Like most Leica lenses, they are both fantastic. When it comes to walking any distance the Summilux is a pain in terms of weight and size. Even worse is the Noctilux. Unless you are happy to carry huge lenses go for the one my wife called the "pretty lens", the Summicron APO. Wives always know best, I have been told to say!

[astrostl]

14 minutes ago, pippy said:

We don't know enough about your needs to give truly accurate advice.

If you need to be shooting at f1.4 you will need a Summilux. Otherwise a Summicron will be a wiser choice.

Agree on needs. As far as Summilux vs. non-APO Summicron at f/2 though, it's not fully clear to me that we're limited to Leica-branded lenses and the Summilux is reported to optically outperform the non-APO Summicron even at f/2 (also evidenced by their MTF charts where the Summilux is ahead on contrast even at f/1.4).

[Jeff S]

47 minutes ago, Peter Kilmister said:

The 50mm Summicron APO is so much better than the much larger and heavier Summilux... (snip).. When it comes to walking any distance the Summilux is a pain in terms of weight and size. 

50 APO... 300 g:  47x53 mm (1.85” x 2.09”)

50 f1.4...   330g:   52.5x53.5mm (2.07” x 2.11”)

A blindfolded person could barely distinguish, let alone be pained by a hike.

I sold my 50 APO (black chrome) and kept my 50 Summilux ASPH, which is superb (and infinitely better at f1.4).

Different strokes for different folks. 

Jeff

Edited December 1, 2020 by Jeff S

[Peter Kilmister]

3 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

50 APO... 300 g:  47x53 mm (1.85” x 2.09”)

50 f1.4...   330g:   52.5x53.5mm (2.07” x 2.11”)

A blindfolded person could barely distinguish, let alone be pained by a hike.

I sold my 50 APO (black chrome) and kept my 50 Summilux ASPH, which is superb (and infinitely better at f1.4).

Different strikes for different folks. 

Jeff

My wife knows best. I can't argue with that. Well, I could but what's the point?

[evikne]

I never buy lenses by needs, but because of their rendering, bokeh, size, shape, tactile feel etc. And I let my heart decide.

[pippy]

29 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

...50 f1.4...   330g:   52.5x53.5mm (2.07” x 2.11”)...A blindfolded person could barely distinguish, let alone be pained by a hike...

Not wishing to start a bunfight, Jeff, but the v4 Summicron (for example) weighs just 195g and, unlike the Summilux, there is essentially no finder blockage.

The Summilux is a gorgeous lens and it renders beautifully wide open but does the OP really need to shell-out for a Summilux if f1.4 isn't a requirement?

Philip.

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by pippy

[Jeff S]

3 minutes ago, pippy said:

Not wishing to start a bunfight, Jeff, but the v4 Summicron (for example) weighs just 195g and, unlike the Summilux, there is essentially no finder blockage.

The Summilux is a gorgeous lens and it renders beautifully wide open but does the OP really need to shell-out for a Summilux if f1.4 isn't a requirement?

Philip.

 

But the comparison was to the 50 APO M Summicron, a 30 g difference, not a 135g difference.

Jeff

[Herr Barnack]

@David_miller70,

The M camera you will be using your 50mm lens on should be a consideration.

With the M10, M10R or M10 Monochrom having 50,000 or 100,000 ISO capability, the extra stop of light the f/1.4 Summilux offers is less of a priority.

With a film M, M8, M9, M240, M-P 240 or M246 having more modest maximum usable ISOs, the extra stop of the Summilux becomes more of a factor to consider.

Being an M4-P, M-P 240 and M10 Mono owner, I would be inclined to get the 50 f/2 APO (if price were not a barrier).  The f/1.4 Summilux ASPH is still an interesting lens though.

[Jeff S]

He also asked about bokeh, which is affected by the extra stop that the Summilux provides.  Whether the differences are appealing or important, only the OP can decide, ideally via demo.

Jeff

[TomB_tx]

Bokeh refers to the character of the out of focus areas, not the amount of blur. Thus an f2 lens may have "better" bokeh than an f1.4 lens, even though the 1.4 lens should show more out of focus (at 1.4). 

Bokeh as also very subjective - "better" is up to each individual's preferences.

[Guest]

If you can afford it get the fastest lens possible if your going to photograph people.

Its always nice to have that option to sometimes shoot at f1.4  or even faster for that special fast/wide open look it can give.

Just nice to have that option in my view.

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[Jeff S]

10 minutes ago, TomB_tx said:

Bokeh refers to the character of the out of focus areas, not the amount of blur. Thus an f2 lens may have "better" bokeh than an f1.4 lens, even though the 1.4 lens should show more out of focus (at 1.4). 

Bokeh as also very subjective - "better" is up to each individual's preferences.

True, my wording was lazy, but I didn’t want to get into DOF effects vs blur/blur quality. I figured someone would force a response.  But I did emphasize individual preference/experience, which was my key point.

Jeff