ok- boring I know but sell m240 buy m10?

[jaques]

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perfectly happy with my m240 for many years now... but once again the bug is there and I am considering selling it and getting an m10 (with the better visoflex). I love the more m3 form of the m10 and the simplified look and feel. I've read about the various pros and cons... I am not sure why I ask as everything is subjective, etc but One question I do have:

 

i was always happier with the out of camera files from the m9. Often I didn't feel any need to tweak them. The m240 never so much- I found the files somehow flat. The other day a camera salesman told me that the m10 files are 'most like the m9' with that 'pop' out of camera. Is that true in other peoples experience? after however many years with m10 do you feel it was worth it and reliable? My m240 has been perfectly reliable.

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[Raymondl]

Not a M10 owner but a M9 owner, I have been looking at the files and different “informal” comparisons such as: https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2018/01/30/leica-m9-vs-leica-m10-side-by-side-shots-by-bernd-reinhardt/

https://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2017/2/8/leica-m10-review-part-2-low-light-comparison

I would definitely get the M10 or M10-R...I don’t see the point of CCD vs CMOS debates anymore ..

I just look at the images and all of the other advantages that it provides (dynamic range/high ISO).. colors are “good enough” for my tastes. 

But in the interim I am happy with what I have. 

[strohscw]

vor einer Stunde schrieb jaques:

perfectly happy with my m240 for many years now... but once again the bug is there and I am considering selling it and getting an m10 (with the better visoflex). I love the more m3 form of the m10 and the simplified look and feel. I've read about the various pros and cons... I am not sure why I ask as everything is subjective, etc but One question I do have:

 

i was always happier with the out of camera files from the m9. Often I didn't feel any need to tweak them. The m240 never so much- I found the files somehow flat. The other day a camera salesman told me that the m10 files are 'most like the m9' with that 'pop' out of camera. Is that true in other peoples experience? after however many years with m10 do you feel it was worth it and reliable? My m240 has been perfectly reliable.

" I found the files somehow flat"

I hear this argument very often about the M10 Monochrom, but I believe that this mainly has to do with the much higher dynamic range capabilities of the newer sensors, which might make it necessary to increase the contrast with "normal contrast situations" to get the full range from black to white.

And for me this higher dynamic range is far more important than having more MPix´s. At the beginning I had the M10 and I really love the lower noise level of the M10M shutter, which is the same as the one from the M10P I think.

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, jaques said:

perfectly happy with my m240 for many years now

Repeat twenty times before each meal...

[tom.w.bn]

Don't really understand M240 to M10. M240 -> M10R

[analog-digital]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb jaques:

perfectly happy with my m240 for many years now... but once again the bug is there and I am considering selling it and getting an m10 (with the better visoflex). I love the more m3 form of the m10 and the simplified look and feel. I've read about the various pros and cons... I am not sure why I ask as everything is subjective, etc but One question I do have:

 

i was always happier with the out of camera files from the m9. Often I didn't feel any need to tweak them. The m240 never so much- I found the files somehow flat. The other day a camera salesman told me that the m10 files are 'most like the m9' with that 'pop' out of camera. Is that true in other peoples experience? after however many years with m10 do you feel it was worth it and reliable? My m240 has been perfectly reliable.

No, because: "perfectly happy with my m240 for many years now"

[M11 for me]

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There are huge developments in sensor rendering since the 240. The fact that you ask the question is probably that you somehow decided to go for the M10-R. I would encourage you to do that step.

[jaques]

haven't even looked at the specs of the m10-r... I can't make that big a leap. Going from m240 to m10 is a matter of about 3K$. I can swing that. Australian dollar is too low for ANY new Leica for me.

[WvE]

In my opinion the M10 is an upgrade to the M240 (unless you can't be without its features lime video). I bet you can find a good deal on a second hand M10 nowadays. 

[Good To Be Retired]

Having considered the same question, I arrived at the decision FOR ME that jumping to an M10 would not add enough improvements THAT I WOULD PERSONALLY USE to make it worthwhile.

An M10R however......................

[Paulus]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb jaques:

perfectly happy with my m240 for many years now... but once again the bug is there and I am considering selling it and getting an m10 (with the better visoflex). I love the more m3 form of the m10 and the simplified look and feel. I've read about the various pros and cons... I am not sure why I ask as everything is subjective, etc but One question I do have:

 

i was always happier with the out of camera files from the m9. Often I didn't feel any need to tweak them. The m240 never so much- I found the files somehow flat. The other day a camera salesman told me that the m10 files are 'most like the m9' with that 'pop' out of camera. Is that true in other peoples experience? after however many years with m10 do you feel it was worth it and reliable? My m240 has been perfectly reliable.

The reason I still have one has stayed the same. But I did buy a cheap M10 as a second camera on assignments. 

And I must say... in the daytime I prefer the M240. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Paulus

[Ko.Fe.]

Sales would tell you exactly what you want to hear. To sell.  

M10 has benefit over M240 for size and higher ISO. Will be supported longer, but once you on the grasshopper upgrade path, longevity of support is not so important. 

Basically where are two views. CCD vs CMOS or it is all the same. And it is totally individual.

Personally, I'm not impressed by M10 CMOS colors most of the time, but BW is nice. For CMOS color I prefer Olympus and FujiNoFilm. My E-PL1 has much better colors than my M-E 220 :). 

[Jeff S]

9 hours ago, strohscw said:

" I found the files somehow flat"

I hear this argument very often about the M10 Monochrom, but I believe that this mainly has to do with the much higher dynamic range capabilities of the newer sensors, which might make it necessary to increase the contrast with "normal contrast situations" to get the full range from black to white.

 

Yes, higher dynamic range cameras typically yield flatter files (more linear contrast curve) out of camera. It’s up to the user to adjust to taste directly via the tone curve and/or using slider controls.  
 

But one can easily create default import settings and/or presets to create different starting points. Digital provides much greater  flexibility and convenience than in film days, with film types having inherently steeper, built-in curve shapes.

Jeff

[Paulus]

And I must say, if I see an ad like this, I have to restrain myself not to buy a second...

 

https://www.leica-store-berlin.de/de/produkt/12761/leica-m-typ240-silbern

 

 

[martinot]

It is totally up you, and your needs and feelings.

Personally I would keep my M240, and if I upgrade I would skip the M10 and probably go directly for the M10R.

 

[analog-digital]

Am 19.11.2020 um 19:09 schrieb Ko.Fe.:

Sales would tell you exactly what you want to hear. To sell.  

M10 has benefit over M240 for size and higher ISO. Will be supported longer, but once you on the grasshopper upgrade path, longevity of support is not so important. 

Basically where are two views. CCD vs CMOS or it is all the same. And it is totally individual.

Personally, I'm not impressed by M10 CMOS colors most of the time, but BW is nice. For CMOS color I prefer Olympus and FujiNoFilm. My E-PL1 has much better colors than my M-E 220 :). 

There are no bad or good colors. Firstly, this is a matter of opinion and secondly, you can correct it on LR or PS!

[RayD28]

3 hours ago, martinot said:

It is totally up you, and your needs and feelings.

Personally I would keep my M240, and if I upgrade I would skip the M10 and probably go directly for the M10R.

 

Do you plan to keep the m240?  I am in the same boat and with current values of the M240-P i've started thinking about keeping or giving away/loaning it to a family member.  With a Thumbs Up the slightly thicker 240 is easy to you use and I have no compliant with it until I get to higher ISO and want to do moderate copping.  

I came from an M9 that was more fidgety than a 10-year old VW Beatle I drove in college.  Probably just my example but I can't tell you how many times it locked up requiring a ritual of turning off and on, and removing batteries and SD cards. The 240P is as reliable as a brick doorstop.  The colors generally need tweaking in Lightroom but that's not a big deal for me.

Ray

[Ko.Fe.]

9 hours ago, analog-digital said:

There are no bad or good colors. Firstly, this is a matter of opinion and secondly, you can correct it on LR or PS!

You can't correct something which not exist.

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[crf59]

On 11/19/2020 at 4:13 AM, tom.w.bn said:

Don't really understand M240 to M10. M240 -> M10R

Actually I was in the same boat and recently traded my M240 on an M10-P. There are many things I like about the M10 vs the M240. They've all been hashed out before, but among them are slimmer form factor (the difference is much more noticeable when holding than numbers indicate), much quieter shutter (on my -P at least), much better viewfinder, better EVF in the smaller Visoflex, and I now have the level function and touchscreen (which I don't care much about). IQ-wise, the M10 does perform better (though it's not a huge difference) in virtually every area. Especially in dynamic range in my opinion. I thought about the 10R, and maybe I will down the road. For now I love the M10-P. 

[cboy]

What would the OP do better in his workflow with an M10 than with a M240?

I myself cant justify it given the differences arent critically substantial. Maybe the improved handling would benifit experience. How much improvement is it over the M240 20%? Leica are masters at incremental change, and whichever way you look at it that might be considered as genius for Leicas' sales and curse to its users. 

Hell, my Sigma fp has BSI sensor, dual gain iso, autofocus capability, 4k 12bit raw recording, and its smaller! (I wish those features would be in the next M iteration but i doubt all) Cost performance is no brainer, which is why i supplement  my gears shortcoming with another. For almost 90% of shooting id say my M would be more than enough. My fp adds another 7-8% to flexibility in shooting scenarios. What could the m10 add? 2-3%;  M10R 4-6%

But then again if budget is non issue and GAS has set in then no amount of convincing would change a person otherwise; just throw out what i mentioned. Hahahaha

I need keep reminding myself of an one camera and lens fits all fallacy. Hahaha