Beginner's Guide to Shooting with M10 - Kindergarten Post

[MikeMyers]

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1 hour ago, astrostl said:

You need BOTH of them to be on A to be in aperture priority mode: aperture priority mode means, and only means, that you have manually set your aperture and that the camera is automatically setting BOTH ISO and shutter speed. If ISO is auto and SS is not, it isn't AP; if SS is auto and ISO is not, it isn't AP. I think putting "AP" on a dial setting _that would only mean that if both dials were set to it_ would be much more confusing than the cross-brand standard of "A" which means "automatically set this".

I'm not the expert here, but I do want Aperture Priority, and I do NOT want automatic ISO.  Following the instructions, and setting it up the way he described, when you have the "A" selected on the shutter dial, you see the shutter speed the camera is prepared to use.  The aperture has been set on the lens, so all you need to do is go back to the shutter speed dial, and use the recommended shutter speed, setting it manually, on the dial, IF you agree with it.

I just tested this - set my ISO to 200, set the aperture to f/2.8, and set the shutter speed to "A".  Then I pressed the button in the middle of the joystick, and saw the camera suggested 1/60th for shutter.  So, I left everything else the same, and selected 1/60th manually.  The image came out fine.  No big deal this time, but had the camera wanted to to set the shutter speed to 1/15th, for example, I'd have thought no way, I need to open the lens or increase the ISO, so my handheld photo might have a better chance of being sharp.

Had I done this the old way, and turned the shutter speed until the "dots" said the exposure was satisfactory, I might not have realized how long the shutter would be open.

Maybe I'm just weird, but doing it this way makes me think about every setting, rather than let the camera do my thinking for me.

[MikeMyers]

32 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

No. The A on the dial means Aperture Priority meaning you select the aperture and the camera selects the shutter speed based on metering the camera detects. If you set the ISO to auto it also selects ISO for you. If you want to know in advance what ISO is sat you can look at the info screen or set the ISO to a known value.

Try this experiment.  Put the ISO control on "A".  Select an appropriate shutter speed and aperture, and take a picture.  Then aim your camera a little to the right or left, so the brightness is more or less.  I just did that.  The first image was at ISO 200, and the next image the camera raised the ISO to ISO 500.

By setting the knob to A, and selecting my aperture and shutter speed, the "auto ISO" selected an appropriate ISO for each image.  Try it.

If I'm missing something here, please suggest a way to test it the way you do.

[Pixeleater]

35 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

I'm not the expert here, but I do want Aperture Priority, and I do NOT want automatic ISO.  Following the instructions, and setting it up the way he described, when you have the "A" selected on the shutter dial, you see the shutter speed the camera is prepared to use.  The aperture has been set on the lens, so all you need to do is go back to the shutter speed dial, and use the recommended shutter speed, setting it manually, on the dial, IF you agree with it.

I just tested this - set my ISO to 200, set the aperture to f/2.8, and set the shutter speed to "A".  Then I pressed the button in the middle of the joystick, and saw the camera suggested 1/60th for shutter.  So, I left everything else the same, and selected 1/60th manually.  The image came out fine.  No big deal this time, but had the camera wanted to to set the shutter speed to 1/15th, for example, I'd have thought no way, I need to open the lens or increase the ISO, so my handheld photo might have a better chance of being sharp.

Had I done this the old way, and turned the shutter speed until the "dots" said the exposure was satisfactory, I might not have realized how long the shutter would be open.

Maybe I'm just weird, but doing it this way makes me think about every setting, rather than let the camera do my thinking for me.

On the M10R I duplicated your test using the same settings for iso, aperture, and shutter speed. When you compose the shot and then press the shutter button half way it shows the shutter speed that will be used with the settings. There is no need to press the joystick button to see shutter speed. The camera has already made the adjustment. Of course, if you want to increase the shutter speed to something else like 250 then you would make the adjustment using the shutter speed dial. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by Pixeleater

[astrostl]

I consulted the Leica M10 manual just to see what exact language they used.

ISO dial: 'A' is for 'Automatic ISO sensitivity setting'
Shutter speed dial: 'A' is for 'Automatic shutter speed control (Aperture Priority)'

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[Kwesi]

1 hour ago, MikeMyers said:

I'm not the expert here, but I do want Aperture Priority, and I do NOT want automatic ISO.  Following the instructions, and setting it up the way he described, when you have the "A" selected on the shutter dial, you see the shutter speed the camera is prepared to use.  The aperture has been set on the lens, so all you need to do is go back to the shutter speed dial, and use the recommended shutter speed, setting it manually, on the dial, IF you agree with it.

I just tested this - set my ISO to 200, set the aperture to f/2.8, and set the shutter speed to "A".  Then I pressed the button in the middle of the joystick, and saw the camera suggested 1/60th for shutter.  So, I left everything else the same, and selected 1/60th manually.  The image came out fine.  No big deal this time, but had the camera wanted to to set the shutter speed to 1/15th, for example, I'd have thought no way, I need to open the lens or increase the ISO, so my handheld photo might have a better chance of being sharp.

Had I done this the old way, and turned the shutter speed until the "dots" said the exposure was satisfactory, I might not have realized how long the shutter would be open.

Maybe I'm just weird, but doing it this way makes me think about every setting, rather than let the camera do my thinking for me.

Hi Mike Meyers,

Just responding to the section in BOLD above.

You don't need to go back and take the shutter speed dial off the "A" setting and manually select the number you saw on the back of the screen.

The number you see on the back of the screen is the shutter speed the camera will choose if you simply press the shutter release button.

the number you saw on the back of the screen is also visible in the viewfinder when the shutter speed dial is set on "A".

The advantage to looking through the view finder is that your composition doesn't change.

[Daedalus2000]

1 hour ago, MikeMyers said:

Try this experiment.  Put the ISO control on "A".  Select an appropriate shutter speed and aperture, and take a picture.  Then aim your camera a little to the right or left, so the brightness is more or less.  I just did that.  The first image was at ISO 200, and the next image the camera raised the ISO to ISO 500.

By setting the knob to A, and selecting my aperture and shutter speed, the "auto ISO" selected an appropriate ISO for each image.  Try it.

If I'm missing something here, please suggest a way to test it the way you do.

You are overthinking everything maybe because you are used to other cameras.

Let me explain in simple terms. In other cameras (e.g. from Nikon, Canon etc) there is a mode dial, that is telling you the shooting mode of the camera, like aperture priority, speed priority etc etc

The M10 does NOT have such a dial. All you have is control of the 3 shooting parameters (aperture, shutter speed and iso), each one with its own dial. 

Aperture : you always have to choose it yourself.

Shutter speed : you can choose it yourself, or set it to A on the speed dial for AUTO.

ISO : you can choose it yourself, or set it to A on the iso dial for AUTO.

It is as simple as that. Now you choose which parameters you want to control yourself manually and which ones you want the camera to choose and you are ready to shoot.

Happy shooting!

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by Daedalus2000

[jdlaing]

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1 hour ago, MikeMyers said:

Try this experiment.  Put the ISO control on "A".  Select an appropriate shutter speed and aperture, and take a picture.  Then aim your camera a little to the right or left, so the brightness is more or less.  I just did that.  The first image was at ISO 200, and the next image the camera raised the ISO to ISO 500.

By setting the knob to A, and selecting my aperture and shutter speed, the "auto ISO" selected an appropriate ISO for each image.  Try it.

If I'm missing something here, please suggest a way to test it the way you do.

Yes. I know it works that way.

[MikeMyers]

54 minutes ago, Daedalus2000 said:

You are overthinking everything maybe because you are used to other cameras.

Let me explain in simple terms. In other cameras (e.g. from Nikon, Canon etc) there is a mode dial, that is telling you the shooting mode of the camera, like aperture priority, speed priority etc etc

The M10 does NOT have such a dial. All you have is control of the 3 shooting parameters (aperture, shutter speed and iso), each one with its own dial. 

Aperture : you always have to choose it yourself.

Shutter speed : you can choose it yourself, or set it to A on the speed dial for AUTO.

ISO : you can choose it yourself, or set it to A on the iso dial for AUTO.

It is as simple as that. Now you choose which parameters you want to control yourself manually and which ones you want the camera to choose and you are ready to shoot.

Happy shooting!

 

I'm certainly guilty of "overthinking" this, but that's because two days ago I had no idea how it all worked.  And yes, a LOT of my thinking has been shaped by Nikon and Fuji.  Between you guys, YouTube, the internet, and my books, I now feel very comfortable with this.

Now that I think I understand, the bottom line for me is that unless I'm pressed for time, I don't expect to put the ISO on AUTO.  I don't like that on my other cameras either.

Thanks - and now you know why I used the title for this thread that I did.  Later today, I'll post some of the photos I took today, mostly using this technique.

Edited November 13, 2020 by MikeMyers
typo

[MikeMyers]

1 hour ago, astrostl said:

I consulted the Leica M10 manual just to see what exact language they used.

ISO dial: 'A' is for 'Automatic ISO sensitivity setting'
Shutter speed dial: 'A' is for 'Automatic shutter speed control (Aperture Priority)'

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Now that I understand, that page makes total sense.  (I think it makes sense because of what I've learned here and from others.)

[MikeMyers]

2 hours ago, Pixeleater said:

On the M10R I duplicated your test using the same settings for iso, aperture, and shutter speed. When you compose the shot and then press the shutter button half way it shows the shutter speed that will be used with the settings. There is no need to press the joystick button to see shutter speed. The camera has already made the adjustment. Of course, if you want to increase the shutter speed to something else like 250 then you would make the adjustment using the shutter speed dial. 

Yep, you are correct.

Think about what I might or might not do after taking that image.

For me, the answer is "nothing".  So from that moment on, unless I remember to take it off (A), it will stay there for a very long time.  In that case I'm likely to end up taking many photos in (A) mode, aperture priority, which may or may not be good.  In fact, that literally just happened to me - I saw a beautiful sunset taking place, grabbed the camera, saw the circle in the viewfinder indicating good exposure, and shot.  Then I looked at all the settings, and decided to open up the lens aperture, so the shutter speed could be higher.

If possible, I would prefer not to leave the Leica in (A), both on the ISO knob and on the shutter dial.  That's just me.  Maybe I'm being silly.  I'll see how this all works out.

[MikeMyers]

Well, I'm a happy camper.   When I got finished here, I glanced outside and saw the sun was setting.  Set the camera to what I thought might be reasonable, and to save time, I left the shutter speed dial on A so I guess this is technically Aperture priority.  Here's the result. It was processed in my new favorite editor DxO PhotoLab 4.

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Edited November 14, 2020 by MikeMyers

[MikeMyers]

Not sure if I can upload another image, but why not try.....

 

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[MikeMyers]

12 hours ago, M10 for me said:

Underneeth your posts you publish a link to your photographs. It does not work 😣

Where is this link?  I don't see it when I come here.  Very strange.

What is the link that you get to see?   Any reason why I wouldn't or shouldn't see it?   

I guess I will check my profile and user settings, but right now I'm lost......

[Jeff S]

Below your post, this appears....

 

Have camera, will travel....

http://www.sgrid.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?26-Photography

 

 

[Dennis]

10 hours ago, MikeMyers said:

I'm not the expert here, but I do want Aperture Priority, and I do NOT want automatic ISO.

IMHO, my advice is don't do it. Teach yourself to shoot absolutely everything in manual, for the sake of a more controlled, and sometimes even better result. You are in full control; you make decisions, not the camera. I always thought I can't understand why people use something in Auto. I can see the benefits, the speedy process. But it looks like one settles for commitments, not for excellence. When you shoot manual, you decide absolutely everything, your photos with the same camera settings will look the same. I shoot manual even WB.

If one works in AP or Auto ISO or both, in the same scene, you can have very different EXIF, and you can have a picture of 100 ISO, but it can be 1600 too. Which will give me a completely different IQ and DR. You never know.
Try for a while to use only these three ISO values: 200-800-3200, they are my ISO trinity. ISO is the first thing you set, and you don't change it because you are committed to a scene, a photo, a purpose. Then you decide how much context you want in your scene (set manually by aperture = DOP). Once you have these two values, you don't need to change them to keep shooting the same scene, right? You just adjust, if necessary, the SS. For example if you move your camera to another direction with different light.  Does it make sense? WIth practice and practice, you can work freer.
To mastering the manual, you need to work manual only for a while, commit to a long-term deal. And shoot a lot. And I can tell you that you will be faster and maybe even more efficient than some auto modes. Think with the same philosophy of AF VS MF. Which do you think is faster? 😬

And most importantly, you can enjoy and appreciate more photography and the magic that makes the exposure. It's about to paint with light, right? And I assure you that the same-old sunny 16 rule, is still applying nowadays. Oh yeah! And it works perfectly.

My two cents

 

[M11 for me]

Allow me to post my experience. Most time I shoot landscape or architecture in towns. Most time the light is vory good or good. In this instance I choose ISO 100 (fix, in order to avoid higher ISO for any unwanted reasons) plus an aperture, i.e. f/5.6, and an exposure time. All manual. I am very careful not to have blown out sky. Clouds are extremely important.

Then comes the datker lights in the evenings or in dusk/dawn. Then I tend to have again an aperure manually set (maybe wide open) and an exposure time that I can handheld (maybe 1/30s fix with a 50mm lens) and ISO on Auto (as the ISO are higher than 100 anyway). At the same time I make an exposure correction on the tumb wheel of -1EV or maybe 2EV. I wand the exposure not too bright to reflect the real lighting situation. 

Sometimes I set the ISO as well manually. But this takes probably too much time so that do this only in very special situations. Maybe when I use a tripod.

So this is how I work.

[250swb]

9 hours ago, MikeMyers said:

 

If possible, I would prefer not to leave the Leica in (A), both on the ISO knob and on the shutter dial.  That's just me.  Maybe I'm being silly.  I'll see how this all works out.

Just for the record you can set user limits to both minimum shutter speed and maximum ISO that could allow you to have them both set to Auto in normal shooting conditions, then you'll get optimum shooting speed, so not to low, and Auto ISO will give the lowest ISO for the conditions and in relation to the other settings. 

But that aside I'm not entirely sure you understand what effect on the image each setting has and why and when you'd prioritise one over the other. So if you don't want to set shutter speed and ISO to Auto you'd better figure out priorities and when you'd want f/11 and not f/4, or 1/250th second and not 1/8th second, or 100 ISO and not 10,000 ISO. This is easy enough to understand if you learn about them before garbling terms like 'Aperture Priority'. It's similar to learning the guitar, do it badly to start with and it becomes harder to do right later on by forming too many bad habits and things you've short cut and not seen the relevance of. Basic knowledge will help even with using your fully your automatic cameras in knowing when to override them.

[250swb]

Mike, in the kindest possible way here is an example of what you aren't seeing

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compare.

[jaapv]

7 hours ago, MikeMyers said:

Well, I'm a happy camper.   When I got finished here, I glanced outside and saw the sun was setting.  Set the camera to what I thought might be reasonable, and to save time, I left the shutter speed dial on A so I guess this is technically Aperture priority.  Here's the result. It was processed in my new favorite editor DxO PhotoLab 4.

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I think, Mike, that you have to have a look at the postprocessing of this image. The the boats and jetty look  overprocessed and are strangely blue/cyan.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Marac]

The best advice I can offer is to shoot in FULL manual mode, use the exposure meter and try not to do too much in PP afterwards.

The M10 is a stunning camera that will deliver gorgeous pictures with very little effort, concentrate on exposure and making these settings by yourself, the exposure meter will help you (kind of) to get the image you want.

Happy shooting.