You own M10M are you still considering a Q2M?

[Likaleica]

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21 hours ago, psmith2383 said:

I started this thread thinking out loud about who would want or need the new Q2M. I posted my thoughts about this new addition to the Leica product line. This was one of my first posts on the forum and was surprised at the how my thoughts led to such diverse directions, often informing me  as well as helping me understand how diverse we are in our perception of something like a new camera model. From a non-photographic point of view I was pleased how a group of people, passionate about their art and the choices of tools we use, carry on a conversation with civility, respect, and at times humor. Thanks for your candor, new information and helping me grow in understanding. The Q2M’s not for me but I see who might use this tool to further their own goals.

 

 

 

 

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Welcome to the L-Camera Forum, but be prepared to suit up with armor occasionally.  Sometimes that passion goes south, usually about page 3 of any given thread.  Just don't take anything personally even when it's presented as such.

[John Miranda]

On 11/21/2020 at 8:59 AM, Likaleica said:

Welcome to the L-Camera Forum, but be prepared to suit up with armor occasionally.  Sometimes that passion goes south, usually about page 3 of any given thread.  Just don't take anything personally even when it's presented as such.

Lol, someone should open up a thread that raises a provocative point of view between Leica and Canon, then layers on religion, politics and money into the mix for good measure.  

 

[_Olivier]

I currently own both the M10M (with 24, 28, 35, and 50 Luxes) and the Q2M. I've been doing B&W photography exclusively for years, so this set up is ideal for me. 

- 28mm is my favorite focal length. My 28 f/1.4 lux M mount is my favorite lens, but the IQ of the f/1.7 on the Q2M is very nice as well. 

- The two sensors have a comparable look. I can make images with both cameras and easily keep a consistent look across my work. This was an issue before when I owned the M9M and (regular version) M10. Both cameras created beautiful images, but the files had very different looks to them. It was easy to pick out which were made with the M9 Mono vs the M10, and this made my portfolio lose cohesiveness. 

- Really nice to have the option of the weather sealed Q2M if I know I'll be shooting in adverse conditions. 

- I shoot mostly candid photography, and even though the M10M's shutter is very quiet, the completely silent leaf shutter of the Q2M comes in handy sometimes. 

- It is nice to have the option to shoot autofocus if I feel a little bit lazy. 

In my opinion, these 2 cameras compliment each other perfectly for dedicated B&W shooters who love the  28mm focal length. Couldn't be happier, the perfect combo for me. 

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by _Olivier

[robgo2]

On 11/12/2020 at 5:17 PM, Jeff S said:

No, M10 vs Q2...

https://camerasize.com/compare/#702,820
 

Jeff

Even the comparison on camerasize.com understates how much larger and heavier an M10 would be with a 28mm Summilux attached, as it is in the Q2 measurements.

[robgo2]

On 11/15/2020 at 11:30 AM, nicci78 said:

Not at all. 
I am even below the truth. 
Just of think of Q2 as all these cameras and lenses. With integrated Macro-Adapter-M + 4K video capabilities + AF. 
While retaining same out of field view of 0.68x viewfinder. 😌
 

Depth of field and perspective is 100% correct with their M lenses counterparts. Cropping is awesome. 

Yes, perspective is the same as with the M lenses, as perspective is a function of distance between the camera and the subject.  But no, DOF on the Q's 28mm lens is that of a 28mm lens independent of cropping.

[Jeff S]

13 minutes ago, robgo2 said:

Even the comparison on camerasize.com understates how much larger and heavier an M10 would be with a 28mm Summilux attached, as it is in the Q2 measurements.

Well, one would expect more for the money... additional $9k+ ...that the M kit would cost. 😀

Jeff

[Erato]

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On 11/12/2020 at 7:18 PM, M10Alpine said:

I'm just interested in how many who has a M-Monochrome is actually intrigued enough to pll the trigger and buy one or see the Q2M as a possible back up tool? 

Personally I cant really figure out the intended target market for the Q2M. 

I have the M10M and I actually can see that the Q2M would be a fun toy to have but no need to have, well I don't need any Leica strictly speaking because its just a hobby. Whats mainly attracting me is the ease of use and the Macro capabilities. 

Thoughts?

I might consider Q2M or future Q3 due to the followings since COVID-19 still a worry:
1. get rip of dusty sensors
2. close-up or acceptable microphotography
3. 4K black and white documentary video for the seminar, trade show, or conference meetings
4. one camera, one lens scenarios, light travel, especially while long stay, business trip, lifestyle snapshot or even casual street photography
5. diopter setting wheel make sense when the sighting issue hits 

Edited December 26, 2020 by Erato

[M10Alpine]

On 11/20/2020 at 12:39 PM, FrozenInTime said:

Weighing in at 70g , it is a MS Optics 28/2 Apoqualia , from Japan via Bellamy Hunt JCH.

The latest version is here  https://www.japancamerahunter.com/product/ms-optics-apoqualia-28mm-f2-veriii/

 

I have that MS Optics and it performs very well on the M10M 

[nicci78]

According to my contact in Leica. M10 Monochrom is selling way way better than Q2 Mono. The latter is quite a disappointment. 

Between the two models customers will chose the more versatile M10 Mono. In a ratio of 9 times over 1. 
They also prefer the much more advanced 40.5MP sensor with incredible very high ISO. 
 

Between Q2 and Q2 Mono. Customers will chose the colour Q2 at 99% of the time. 

 

Hard core B&W shooters have chosen M10 Monochrom. 
 

Q2 Mono is chosen as secondary cameras for occasional B&W shooters. To complement their M10 or SL2.  Or any other primary colour cameras. 
 

Last but not least, M10 Monochrom is selling very well despite the pandemic. 
 

And if you are interested into Q2 Mono. You should act fast. Not sure to be sold for a very long time.
It can be something like M-D typ 262 or M10-D. Not special edition. But only available until the first batch has been sold. 
 

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by nicci78

[PeterMM1]

While I think the Q & Q2 are really useful and great cameras, the 28 is just too limiting for me personally.
Cropping to 35, 50 or 75 just isn't the same as a dedicated M lens....
I own a Q but if you pick up a Q or Q2 and then pick up an M there is just no comparison. The M just feels very solid and built like a tank and can utilize all the M-mount lenses.
The Q is just a fun and easy camera to use, the M is in a class by itself.

[Alistairm]

Release an MSL2 and watch the take up. 

[newtoleica]

I mainly shoot mono, mostly film with an M7 or an M6TTL, occasionally the M9M. Serious colour with the M10P.

My Q2 is my 'always with me' camera, comes to work, goes on walks in the rain, takes family pics etc.

Can't see a Q2M being added.

[geoffreyg]

Oddly enough, after changing some Ms to the M10M to go with the CL -  have found that manual focusing is rather preferred. You know what you are getting, and can set it as you wish... So no Q.

[Budfox]

On 11/16/2020 at 5:30 AM, nicci78 said:

Not at all. 
I am even below the truth. 
Just of think of Q2 as all these cameras and lenses. With integrated Macro-Adapter-M + 4K video capabilities + AF. 
While retaining same out of field view of 0.68x viewfinder. 😌
 

Depth of field and perspective is 100% correct with their M lenses counterparts. Cropping is awesome. 

Whilst I think the Q2M is a great camera, cropping a 28mm does not give you the same DOF as using a longer focal length. It's in the optics and has been written about elsewhere. It's no different to cropping on computer - the deep DOF of an 18mm f/4 does not suddenly become a very shallow DOF of a 200 f/4 just because you crop.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Budfox

[Budfox]

On 1/30/2021 at 5:47 PM, nicci78 said:

According to my contact in Leica. M10 Monochrom is selling way way better than Q2 Mono. The latter is quite a disappointment. 

Between the two models customers will chose the more versatile M10 Mono. In a ratio of 9 times over 1. 
They also prefer the much more advanced 40.5MP sensor with incredible very high ISO. 
 

Between Q2 and Q2 Mono. Customers will chose the colour Q2 at 99% of the time. 

 

Hard core B&W shooters have chosen M10 Monochrom. 
 

Q2 Mono is chosen as secondary cameras for occasional B&W shooters. To complement their M10 or SL2.  Or any other primary colour cameras. 
 

Last but not least, M10 Monochrom is selling very well despite the pandemic. 
 

And if you are interested into Q2 Mono. You should act fast. Not sure to be sold for a very long time.
It can be something like M-D typ 262 or M10-D. Not special edition. But only available until the first batch has been sold. 
 

 

Great news - I will hold on to mine!

[Budfox]

On 12/22/2020 at 3:13 PM, robgo2 said:

Yes, perspective is the same as with the M lenses, as perspective is a function of distance between the camera and the subject.  But no, DOF on the Q's 28mm lens is that of a 28mm lens independent of cropping.

Agree on that -  perspective depends on where you stand, not on the lens used.

[Budfox]

Back to the topic, I can see why people would choose the M10M over the Q2M, mostly versatility in lenses, more classic rangefinder design and function, higher quality sensor, probably better resale value. However, I am in the 1 out 10 who got it as an occasional B&W camera to complement an M10-P, and film M-P.

I had other MM’s in the past, but the use for me was not enough to justify the cost.

The Q2M is cheaper, smaller and definitely lighter than the M, and I am liking the auto controls and design of the Q. I have never had a Q before and don’t have a big aperture 28mm lens already. I also like to have the B&W preview in the built in EVF.

For me it was a perfect solution to get a B&W only camera and it complements my existing collection nicely.

Everyone’s situation will be different of course. A lot depends on what gear you already have.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Budfox

[acapella]

On 11/15/2020 at 8:04 PM, nicci78 said:

@Jeff S

It is totally correct. Only distance count for perspective 

That is why Q2 wide open crop at 35mm will give you same perspective and same depth of field as Summicron-M 35mm on M10 at the same distance.

Please not that I said that Summilux-Q 28 -> Summicron 35 -> Elmarit 50 -> Elmar 75  

Because equivalent depth of field will be larger and larger. Due to maximum aperture and distance once again 

 

Thanks for all the insights on the Q2 and Q2M, considering myself a Q2M

Have a more theoretical question: what is the explanation of larger DOF while cropping, must have something to do with diameters of these famous ‘circles of confusion ‘ and the efeect of cropping (= enlarging) on them or am I wrong here. Is there a thread explaining this? Where explicit calculations are shown?

 

Regards and thanks,

Acapella

 

[nwphil]

I don't have the M10M but did consider buying it instead of the Q2M - but I would never would consider the regular Q2, as I have already a M240.

There is not such a thing as a perfect camera, only one that you can feel comfortable compromising to obtain the results you need. Hence the Q2M being a perfect fit for me.

I don't shoot b&w all the time, and as I have two other camera systems, going heavy in a lens line-up for the M does not appeal so much or make sense to me.

OTOH, if I had only a M10M the Q2 could have become be a consideration - a hard buy when there more choices available for color photography.

So, it will very unlikely for me to own both Q2M and M10M

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Hallo,

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[fotografr]

On 11/12/2020 at 5:42 AM, FrozenInTime said:

Thought about it ; the camera is a bold move, but I'm happier with the flexibility of M-film, M10 and M10M, sharing lenses or even having identical lenses on a working pair.

There are situations when a pocket sized compact camera is all I want to carry, and would be quite excited if there was ever a Ricoh GR-Monochrome, smaller and lighter than even the TL/CL with 18mm. But the Q is larger than a M and heavy, so just does not fill any slot for me.

You might be interested to check out this place. I have a D Lux 7 that I keep thinking about having them convert to a Monochrom camera but I haven't had enough motivation to do it since I have the M10M. 

https://maxmax.com/maincamerapage/monochrome-cameras/leica-monochrome