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I'm having difficulty in keeping my M camera level. A significant number of images display a clockwise tilt of about 1-2 degrees, and sometimes as much as 3 degrees. I'm now in my late 70s, and first noticed the problem about a decade ago during my pre-digital phase. I can't recall having any problems when using the Leicaflex, but noticed the occasional tilt in images taken when using my M6. In the last few years, the problem has become more frequent.

The problem seems to one of posture. If I close my eyes, raise the camera into position, then open my eyes, the tilt is invariably present. I can only suppose that this is an effect of advancing age. But if I try the same experiment with my M5, the camera is always level. Having my hands wider apart thanks to the wider camera body seems to correct the problem.

Being aware of the problem, I try to check this, but I often don't notice the tilt when using the viewfinder of my M9-P or M-D. In most cases it affects images in which there is no obvious horizontal object, such as when photographing a street or building in which the frontage is angled away from the camera.

Has anyone else experienced a similar  problem?

 

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Yes.

I try to remember to check horizontals / verticals against the rectangular focussing patch and usually manage pretty well but there are some situations where, for several varied reasons, it's next to impossible to get things 100% right and the image(s) will need some remedial work in P-Prod.

With my Nikon F / F2 cameras I always had a grid-screen fitted which was very helpful to say the least! Tilting horizons is a real pet-hate of mine.

Philip.

Edited by pippy
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Yes!  I noticed this problem earlier this year but it seems to have eased up recently.  I haven't examined occurrences sufficiently to begin to understand what's going wrong;  whether a fault with my M10s or my posture.  

I have certainly felt the emotional burdens of certain right-leaning regimes, however.   

 

 

 

 

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There was a time long, long ago, when I fell into the fad of printing my images with the negative frame showing to prove the the image was as seen and not cropped! Well, some images were a bit slanted and in some cases I would crop and indicate that , horror of horrors, it was cropped. The illness subsided as I aged. Anyway, I still occasionally get slanted images shot with any M, mostly because of focus and then recompose and not pay particular attention at levelling the camera. For some people it may be a case of camera tilting as the finger pushes the shutter button. In any case, the issue is strictly caused by the user, not by the equipment.

I now occasionally use the M's for work that I did only with and SLR or medium format, and for those I tend use the M-P with the EVF with the level feature enabled.

 

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For me this is just some of the baggage that comes along with celebrating a lot of birthdays.  I am just wearing out.  And this is one of my shortcomings I can correct, in the photo editor.  Life is about compromises and I seem to be making more now than ever.  My non-Leica digitals have the horizon line which can be displayed.  But then I lose the lovely Leica image.  If it gets really troubling I will invest in a handgrip.  Right now the Thumbie is what I have and it helps.  And I try to not expect perfection.  

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What is so awful about using post-processing to regain the horizon? I often take shots of Chichester Harbour and it is easy to lose the horizon. Water is always level. Tides come in, tides go out. Waves ruffle the surface. However, water is always level. Like a spirit level you can depend on the sea, tidal harbours, to the oceans to be the horizon.

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Agree with Peter. In this era, it is just so much easier to make those adjustments using raw processors or Photoshop. In the darkroom it was also fairly easy, just move the easel, or even tilt it to control angles but with much less leeway. 

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Tilted horizons are anathema to many people.  

I did some experiments a few years ago and found that a horizon tilt of just 0.6 degrees was enough to discern, without measuring, and therefore upset... 😳

 

So one can try to get true horizontals and verticals, but Photoshop, LR or any browser will reset your image to perfection.

...

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I am fanatical about straight horizons and even more about getting the background right. Whilst I always try to frame my shots correctly and expose correctly every time, I have absolutely no issue in making minor adjustments including cropping to get the desired result. I even do the same adjustments in post when I'm shooting film on my M4 as I scan the negs to get them into the digital darkroom. 

I love using sunny-16, I also like to work out my parameters and frame the shot in my head before I've even raised the camera to my eye and I've just added an M10-D to my collection but I'm not such a purist as to worry about using post production to make corrections. Sometimes I'll make perspective corrections too if the final image needs it. Whilst I love the art of photography, the final images also have to please me.

And finally to answer the OP question, yes, I also slant just an annoying amount clockwise (1 or 2 degrees), on a regular basis and have no particular excuse. 🙂

 

 

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Curiously I was experiencing a very consistent clockwise tilt whilst I was still using a soft release on my Leicas.  I had adopted a technique of pressing the shutter button using the middle joint of my index finger on the soft release while the tip of my index finger rested on the shutter speed dial.  

I removed the soft releases and reverted back to using the tip of my index finger to release the shutter, effectively moving my right hand outwards to the right edge of the camera.  Oddly, no more tilt ... or at least not enough to be obvious. 

I far prefer the feel of the moment the shutter is triggered through my finger tip. 

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25 minutes ago, Steve Ricoh said:

I’m not too bothered if the frame isn’t square. It’s more about the content than technical ability.

But surely this is all dependent on the nature of the content? I, like Peter in post #11, shoot a great many of my pictorial photographs with the sea / ocean as a major part of the composition and if the horizon is 1 degree off the image is very disturbing. And not in a Nice way!

For street shots, of course, it doesn't matter in the slightest.......

:lol:

Philip.

 

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Thanks to everyone who replied. Michael asked "Which lenses does this happen with & are the frame lines different for the lenses in question between the M6 & the M5?... Doesn't the M5 have a generally "better" range/viewfinder than the M6?"
The problem is not lens-dependent or viewfinder-dependent  - it is the act of bringing the camera to the eye that generates the tilt. But I agree that the M5 range/viewfinder is better than that of the M6. It doesn't suffer the flare problem that plagued the M6.


jaapv suggested that "A handgrip might help".It might - but I don't like handgrips, or the all-to-common protrusions that plague the right-hand end of the modern camera.
 

Peter Kilmister asked "What is so awful about using post-processing to regain the horizon?"
In most cases that's a workable solution, but if the subject is tightly framed, the resulting crop can intrude on the top and bottom of whatever it is that I'm photographing. Last week I was trying to photograph a local building, and a 28mm lens was just wide enough to accommodate the topmost features. Tilting and cropping the image was not an option. During my third reshoot, I set the camera to shoot continuously, then deliberately rotated it through a small range of angles while always keeping the top of the building within the frame.


Mute-on's experience with a soft release was interesting. However, it doesn't apply in my case - I don't use one.
 

Jeff S noted that "studies show that people lean a little more to the right, conservatively, as they age."

I didn't have to age. At the magazine where I started my second career, I was once described by the chief sub-editor as being a man who believed that Margret Thatcher was a dangerous liberal...


However I suspect that Boojum is right when he says that the problem "is just some of the baggage that comes along with celebrating a lot of birthdays." Like him, I am wearing out.

 

Back in the days when I had to wear thick spectacle lenses, I couldn't see the 35mm and 28mm bright-line frames, so had to rely on a Zeiss turret finder. I think that I'll start using it again to see if a non-level horizon is easier to detect in a less-magnified and less cluttered field of view.

 

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45 minutes ago, pippy said:

But surely this is all dependent on the nature of the content? I, like Peter in post #11, shoot a great many of my pictorial photographs with the sea / ocean as a major part of the composition and if the horizon is 1 degree off the image is very disturbing. And not in a Nice way!

For street shots, of course, it doesn't matter in the slightest.......

:lol:

Philip.

 

Sure, I suppose my position is that I don’t do landscapes. In fact I like what’s called the Dutch angle.

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