Jamie Roberts Posted August 22, 2007 Share #41 Posted August 22, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I had a conversation with an electronics wizard who warned me about mixing electronic parts of different brands not only because of the differences in voltage (which is not a worry with the new strobes) but also because of the different contact pins. I use the safe-sync because I like the extra protection that it affords. Cindy--normally I'd agree, but there's nothing particularly worrysome in the M8's "smart" shoe evidently. It's true you can cause damage if--for example--you were to short out the pins on your 580 or other flash by using the M8's shoe. But I've already taken the plunge for you all;) It doesn't short out, and so the pins are compatible (be careful to keep the flash turned off when putting in on or off the shoe, though). YMMV of course Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 22, 2007 Posted August 22, 2007 Hi Jamie Roberts, Take a look here Using flash anyone? Any recommendation?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Albert4321 Posted August 23, 2007 Share #42 Posted August 23, 2007 is this sFill from Leica goodies any good (with the SF24D)? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/31486-using-flash-anyone-any-recommendation/?do=findComment&comment=336425'>More sharing options...
cliffordjim Posted August 23, 2007 Share #43 Posted August 23, 2007 I used this diffuser alot with my M7 and SF20 and it worked great. However you need to use it in TTL mode because the diffuser reflects directly onto the sensor located on the SF20 flash unit (on the M8 the SF20 doesn't afford TTL so you would need the SF24 flash to avoid this problem). Because of this I have ordered the Demb diffuser to use with my SF20/M8 set-up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiajay Posted August 24, 2007 Share #44 Posted August 24, 2007 I have mentioned this before in another thread..Cindy's concern about mixing and matching different manufacturer's flash and camera equipment is correct. What you guys don't realize is that even though what you have may be working, an improper voltage (too much) may be being applied through the dedicated contacts which, while working at the present time, may be slowly frying something inside the camera over time. Try applying 2 volts to something rated at .5 volt over many months and see what happens. I see a lot of people make the same mistake with cell phone chargers...hey the plug fits and it seems to charge the phone, so all is great right? Umm, no..the charger may be putting out 10 volts but the cell may only want 5. It'll work alright but your battery will fail prematurely, and you may actually damage the phone in the process. I don't think I would take chances like this with a $5000 camera body. And I am NOT talking about the tirgger circuit...most nowadays are low voltage. I am talking about the dedicated pins. You don't KNOW what voltage exist there. A good answer for this is to make sure the dedicated pins on the camera's hot shoe is covered with electric tape. You are not using TTL anyway, so these contacts serve no purpose. This way only the sync terminal is exposed, and as long as you are not using a high voltage flash (very very few are these days) you should be fine. Or the BEST solution in my opinion is to just pick up a non dedicated thyristor flash like a Sunpak 383. There are no dedicated pins on this flash, it has a low voltage triggering circuit, it is under $100 and works wonderfully with the M8. I use one myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted August 24, 2007 Share #45 Posted August 24, 2007 I{snipped} And I am NOT talking about the tirgger circuit...most nowadays are low voltage. I am talking about the dedicated pins. You don't KNOW what voltage exist there. A good answer for this is to make sure the dedicated pins on the camera's hot shoe is covered with electric tape. You are not using TTL anyway, so these contacts serve no purpose. This way only the sync terminal is exposed, and as long as you are not using a high voltage flash (very very few are these days) you should be fine. Or the BEST solution in my opinion is to just pick up a non dedicated thyristor flash like a Sunpak 383. There are no dedicated pins on this flash, it has a low voltage triggering circuit, it is under $100 and works wonderfully with the M8. I use one myself. Well, since I don't have a Sunpak to hand (does it bounce? Can you turn it down a lot? Easily?) and will have a 580 around, I'll risk it.... but the point about electrical tape is good. I think I'll do it on the m8 though, and not on the flash, since I use ETTL on the Canon bodies... Heck--on second thought, I'll just dig out the old VOM and I'll check to see what voltage lies across the dedicated pins and report back. Then I'll check it agains my Leica compatible Metz. It's true I'm being too cavalier, but anything that works in the field is a good thing--till it isn't. Then we'll know To me, this is not like cell-phone charger with differing (gross) voltages, but we'll see Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ariston Posted August 24, 2007 Share #46 Posted August 24, 2007 I have mentioned this before in another thread..Cindy's concern about mixing and matching different manufacturer's flash and camera equipment is correct. What you guys don't realize is that even though what you have may be working, an improper voltage (too much) may be being applied through the dedicated contacts which, while working at the present time, may be slowly frying something inside the camera over time. Try applying 2 volts to something rated at .5 volt over many months and see what happens. I see a lot of people make the same mistake with cell phone chargers...hey the plug fits and it seems to charge the phone, so all is great right? Umm, no..the charger may be putting out 10 volts but the cell may only want 5. It'll work alright but your battery will fail prematurely, and you may actually damage the phone in the process. I don't think I would take chances like this with a $5000 camera body. And I am NOT talking about the tirgger circuit...most nowadays are low voltage. I am talking about the dedicated pins. You don't KNOW what voltage exist there. A good answer for this is to make sure the dedicated pins on the camera's hot shoe is covered with electric tape. You are not using TTL anyway, so these contacts serve no purpose. This way only the sync terminal is exposed, and as long as you are not using a high voltage flash (very very few are these days) you should be fine. Or the BEST solution in my opinion is to just pick up a non dedicated thyristor flash like a Sunpak 383. There are no dedicated pins on this flash, it has a low voltage triggering circuit, it is under $100 and works wonderfully with the M8. I use one myself. Very useful info, thanks. However the Sunpak 383 is not available in Europe and don't want to get into the shipping, duty, VAT handling charges etc. which would more than double the cost by importing from the US. Does anyone have any advice on the compatibility of the Metz 36 C-2, a non dedicated flash? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack MacDonough Posted August 25, 2007 Share #47 Posted August 25, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I finally gave in and got a 24. I should have earlier. As much as I do available light, reduced power flash mixed with a fast lens can lighten shadows that I don't want. If Leica makes a flash cord for TTL sync it would be much appreciated and we could skip all the discussion of a need for tilt and bounce on a new 24. Being able to go vertical is more important than a tilt bounce head. Please tell em Guy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffordjim Posted August 25, 2007 Share #48 Posted August 25, 2007 I finally gave in and got a 24. I should have earlier. As much as I do available light, reduced power flash mixed with a fast lens can lighten shadows that I don't want. If Leica makes a flash cord for TTL sync it would be much appreciated and we could skip all the discussion of a need for tilt and bounce on a new 24. Being able to go vertical is more important than a tilt bounce head. Please tell em Guy. The Nikon SC-17 flash cord works with the SF20 on my M7 (all features work including TTL). From Cindy's set-up it appears to work with the M8 and SF24 too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted August 25, 2007 Share #49 Posted August 25, 2007 I finally gave in and got a 24. I should have earlier. As much as I do available light, reduced power flash mixed with a fast lens can lighten shadows that I don't want. If Leica makes a flash cord for TTL sync it would be much appreciated and we could skip all the discussion of a need for tilt and bounce on a new 24. Being able to go vertical is more important than a tilt bounce head. Please tell em Guy. Actually--it may be more important to you But if they made a tilt / bounce / swivel head I would have bought one right away. A fixed flash head is next to useless for me--vertical or horizontal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted August 25, 2007 Share #50 Posted August 25, 2007 Been asking for a med size flash, the Metz 54 is just too damn big and the SF24 is just too limited. It needs a moving head and more power. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted August 25, 2007 Share #51 Posted August 25, 2007 is this sFill from Leica goodies any good (with the SF24D)? Albert: I use the Sfill with a SF20. I use it on the M8 with Auto. To get the sFill to work well on auto, you need to cut a piece of cardboard to fill in the bottom portion of the sFill so no light hits the SF20-SF25 sensor. I will try to make a photo of my setup and post it here. Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted August 25, 2007 Share #52 Posted August 25, 2007 Here is a photo of my Sfill will the shroud for using auto. I made the shroud out of mount board and it is held on with two strips of velcro. I can then still fold the Sfill flat to store in my camera bag. I also put a little shroud over the sensor on the SF-20 to protect it from any light that might get past the mount board shroud. This is just a dust cap off a DB25 computer cable end that I cut a hole in and attached with double sided tape. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
californiajay Posted August 25, 2007 Share #53 Posted August 25, 2007 Well, since I don't have a Sunpak to hand (does it bounce? Can you turn it down a lot? Easily?) and will have a 580 around, I'll risk it.... but the point about electrical tape is good. I think I'll do it on the m8 though, and not on the flash, since I use ETTL on the Canon bodies... Heck--on second thought, I'll just dig out the old VOM and I'll check to see what voltage lies across the dedicated pins and report back. Then I'll check it agains my Leica compatible Metz. It's true I'm being too cavalier, but anything that works in the field is a good thing--till it isn't. Then we'll know To me, this is not like cell-phone charger with differing (gross) voltages, but we'll see Yes the 383 does bounce and it is very easy to turn the power down. There is a slider on the back which will allow you to go from full power all the way down to 1/16th power if you want. Another good choice is the Vivitar 283 (very early ones did have high voltage trigger circuits, so ask before using), or a Vivitar 285. You're right, a cell charger can indeed have a very different voltage than that which the battery you are charging requires, but my point was to point out that it is a very common thing that people do, and they may not be aware of why their batteries may fail prematurely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted August 26, 2007 Share #54 Posted August 26, 2007 is this sFill from Leica goodies any good (with the SF24D)? Yes - it is great. It turns the SF24-D from an almost useless lump of plastic into a good flash. It does not even seem to reduce the power much. It also softens the pre-flash so that people don't blink. After giving up on the MZ54i due to the GNC not working properly, I was at a loss what to do. I had sold the SF24-D I got as a freebie with my Digliux 2 because it was so harsh with my M8 - horrible red-eye, when people did not have their eyes shut from the pre-flash. I then saw someone's else's results with a SFILL and had to bear the financial pain of rebuying an SF24-D (at of course, much more than I had sold mine for). Have actually not regretted it for a second since. Wilson Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/31486-using-flash-anyone-any-recommendation/?do=findComment&comment=338180'>More sharing options...
ho_co Posted August 26, 2007 Share #55 Posted August 26, 2007 Wilson-- Wow! Good illustration! You're using it in GNC mode? So you don't need the cardboard shield that Robert shows just above your post? --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted August 26, 2007 Share #56 Posted August 26, 2007 Wilson--Wow! Good illustration! You're using it in GNC mode? So you don't need the cardboard shield that Robert shows just above your post? --HC Howard, Yes - I am using the SF24 in GNC mode. With the M8, I feel you have enough manual things to be thinking about and playing with to have also to be thinking about manual settings for a flash. However saying that, when space is at a premium, I carry around a tiny Minox 8 x 11 flash, which is manual flash number setting only, that works at a sync speed of 1/125. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted August 29, 2007 Share #57 Posted August 29, 2007 Yes the 383 does bounce and it is very easy to turn the power down. There is a slider on the back which will allow you to go from full power all the way down to 1/16th power if you want. Another good choice is the Vivitar 283 (very early ones did have high voltage trigger circuits, so ask before using), or a Vivitar 285. You're right, a cell charger can indeed have a very different voltage than that which the battery you are charging requires, but my point was to point out that it is a very common thing that people do, and they may not be aware of why their batteries may fail prematurely. Jay--tonight's a night for eating crow. That is, for me to eat crow Not that anything has happened with my M8 or my 580 / 550 flashes, but I saw a new hot-shoe-to-hot-shoe Wein safe-synch that is just about everything I need, I think. So with that one $80 accessory, I can safely mount the 580 (or anything else) on the M8 since it looks like the dedicated pins are taken out of the picture with this thing. The absolute bonus on this device for me is that it has a PC connector as well. So now, finally, I can hook up the M8 to both an on camera flash *and* a pocket wizard at the same time, which means I can fire remote gelled strobes and the on-camera flash all at once, and balance the ambient of a large room. So again my apologies for sounding so cavalier. With so much invested in the camera (and the flash) the adapter makes good sense. And thanks, too, for the information on the Vivitars. I'll look into them for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttoG Posted August 29, 2007 Share #58 Posted August 29, 2007 Thanks again Simon. I've actually never liked the TTL on the 24D anyways. The pre-flash is much too distracting and I've found better results using the A mode anyways. In that case, you may want to note that most (all?) Canon flashes have no A mode (as opposed to most Metz and Nikon flashes). This is presumably because all EOS cameras have had TTL flash capability. You would have to use manual mode with a Canon flash. Otto Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted August 29, 2007 Share #59 Posted August 29, 2007 In that case, you may want to note that most (all?) Canon flashes have no A mode (as opposed to most Metz and Nikon flashes). This is presumably because all EOS cameras have had TTL flash capability. You would have to use manual mode with a Canon flash. Otto Yes, that's correct: they have no A mode. What they do have is availability (for me) and the ability to be turned down a lot and quickly--something I just cannot get my Metz 54 to do When I need to add a lot of light, the Metz is the go to flash, but I'm not usually doing that with a portable flash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
canlogic Posted August 29, 2007 Share #60 Posted August 29, 2007 Jay--tonight's a night for eating crow. That is, for me to eat crow Not that anything has happened with my M8 or my 580 / 550 flashes, but I saw a new hot-shoe-to-hot-shoe Wein safe-synch that is just about everything I need, I think. So with that one $80 accessory, I can safely mount the 580 (or anything else) on the M8 since it looks like the dedicated pins are taken out of the picture with this thing. The absolute bonus on this device for me is that it has a PC connector as well. . Jamie do you have a part number and where you found it? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.