90mm for Leica M

[Banci]

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Hi everyone, my current setup is M10 with 28 Summicron + 50 Summilux and I'd like to add a 90mm.

 

I'm torn between the 90 Elmarit-M (same 46mm filter thread, great handling, very reasonable price) and the 90 Macro Elmar (super compact but also very expensive).

 

I don't need anything more than 2.8, I've already had the Summicron Pre-ASPH and the Elmarit-M in the past and I prefere the Elmarit overall. Macro is not my priority especially with a Leica M but the possibility to shoot closer to my subject could be a great plus for Portraits and the lens is super compact too, which makes it the best 90mm for Travel. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Banci

[dkmoore]

90 macro can be purchased for $1800-2000 USD. 
 

You can find the elmarit for $1100. 
 

The 90 macro is incredibly sharp wide open but using it as a standard lens it is very clinical and mostly void of character. This may or may not be a bad thing depending on what you want. I like the 90 macro overall and especially because it opens the door to macro, is a much newer lens and less likely to have a bunch of flaws when buying used (haze, scratches). With the M10 the ISO is good enough to use the f4 in most situations without to much trouble. 

[Tom Johnston]

I have a few 90s from over the years, including an old Elmar thread mount, current occasional use- Elmar-c f/4 nice and compact; Elmarit 90 from the sixties I think, (this example I got from an old friend, Tom A. in Vancouver) - long barrel and good performer. Tele-Elmarit aka as the fat-tele, fairly compact and great performer, as is the thin-tele version. I've been wanting the next version with built in hood as I understand the re-designed lens elements add to overall performance. In the price line-up of current lenses these can be had at reasonable prices.

I've had these for years, from film days. Not sure what I would recommend for a digital M.

 

[Good To Be Retired]

24 minutes ago, Tom Johnston said:

 I've been wanting the next version with built in hood ...................

I've had these for years, from film days. Not sure what I would recommend for a digital M.

 

I suspect you will like the collapsable hood version.  I settled on this one some years ago after experimenting with other, some much more expensive, versions.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Good To Be Retired

[adan]

For me (sorry folks) the "Macro" is a toy lens. The whole collapsing thing is so.....1963. Unnecessarily "fiddly." As is a 90mm f/4.0 (an idea Leica first left behind in 1968). Very thin aperture ring, that feels "plasticky" and sloppy,  even though it is metal. Your 28 Summicron ring is more substantial.

I put "Macro" in quotes because it is not really a macro lens, optimized for best resolution at close distances - my 75 APO-Summicron (with floating elements) has better resolution below 1 meter, at any aperture.

The Elmarit-M is probably the most competent 90 f/2.8 Leica ever made. Nothing beats its image and build quality overall. Its main weaknesses are a tendency to flare on digital Ms (due to internal reflections in the camera, not inherent in the lens itself); a notable sag or "valley" in MTF/resolution halfway to the corners at f/2.8; and weight. It should be noted that the Elmarit-M was originally designed for the SLR R-system (1981) and then "ported" to the M-mount in 1991, while remaining in the R line until that was discontinued altogether.

I would also mention the 90mm Summarit f/2.5, if one is buying used. It is actually sort of a compromise "re-thinking" of the optics of the Elmarit-M and the pre-ASPH Summicron you mentioned, rather as though Leica tried to make it a replacement for both "looks." The clarity of the Elmarit combined with the lovely wide-open bokeh of the Summicron (but also some of the Summicron's chromatic aberrations - red fringes to objects when wide-open in hard light). Other weaknesses: requires separate screw-on hood; rubber focus ring, a bit cool and purplish for my taste. Other strengths: nearly 15% lighter than the Elmarit; less sag in the MTF curve wide-open; less tendency for flare on a digital M.

(NB: I got occasional severe flare from a 90 Summarit f/2.4 - but that appeared to be a reflection in the edge of the front element. Possibly a one-off production problem).

I would call the Elmarit-M and Summarit f/2.5 effectively equal. Either will "pair well" with the look of the 28 Summicron and 50 Summilux ASPH. It just depends on personal priorities regarding the specific strengths and weaknesses.

(Full Disclosure: Personally, I use a 1980 Summicron-M. I have a special preference for the yellow/greener Canadian color rendering and contrast, and do need the extra f/stop often even with ISO 10000. Interesting stuff happens in dark places. )

Edited October 13, 2020 by adan

[wda]

Welcome!

I7 fully support  Adan's  conclusion..possibly favouringvghe Elmarit lens.

[rramesh]

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The Elmarit-M and Summarit-M 90 are both equally great lenses and both use 46mm filters. The Elmarit-M has an extensible integrated hood which is quite useful. The Summarit-M has a rubber ring which doesn't age well if you live in places with high humidity.

[luigi bertolotti]

I have both : Elmarit M is unbeatable as image quality ... Macro Elmar is at the top for carrying. 

[lct]

I have both too, excellent lenses indeed, but to get the same modern IQ as 50/1.4 asph and 28/2 asph with not too slow an aperture i would probably choose a 90/2.4 (no experience with 90/2.5) although i don't like much its screw-in hood.

[wda]

I turn the screw in hood to my advantage. Only in exceptional circumstances do I remove it. And the hood cap is well-behaved. 

[poli]

I currently own a 90mm summicron pre-asph & Macro Elmar. The Summicron is very nice for portraits and also landscape. Actually I really like the way it renders. I used to have a 90 ELMARIT-M, also enjoyed it very much. But the size and weight difference with the summicron was very small. Both these lenses are too big and heavy for me while going for longer walks. I chose to sell the ELMARIT-M and bought the Macro Elmar. It is small, but above all very light. It balances much better on the m-body and that makes it more pleasant to use. I now use 90mm way more often than before. And it is a focal length I happen to enjoy a lot Btw: I never have the feeling it's a toy lens. I think you can't go wrong with either lens, it just depends on your use. 

[Banci]

Thank you guys!

I really don't like the Summarits, they may have a great IQ but they feel cheap to me..

[Rick in CO]

The 90mm Macro-Elmar is extremely pocketable for travel use, especially if only used occasionally.  I would hate to have to lug around a Summicron or Summilux, 75 or 90, along with the 28/50 kit.  As Andy points out, it is not just very good close-up but also excellent at longer distances which is how I use mine.  f4 is a bit slow, but is probably as good at that aperture as a recent Summilux/Summicron stopped down for optimal results and depth of field which can be important for travel shots.  I bought mine used in mint condition for less than half the new price, making it a bargain among Leica lenses.  If 75/90 were your primary lens, then the Summilux/Summicron would be the choice, but for travel I can put the 90 collapsible Elmar in one jacket pocket, my 24 Elmarit in the other, and carry my M10 with its lens around my neck without looking too much like a tourist (well, maybe).

[Per P.]

7 hours ago, luigi bertolotti said:

I have both : Elmarit M is unbeatable as image quality ... Macro Elmar is at the top for carrying. 

I also have both and agree with Luigi. However, the Macro Elmar IS fiddly. The lens is not fixated when collapsed, which is really odd, and the hood is effective but impractical. Both produce stellar picture quality. If I had to pick only one, from scratch, I'd buy a late version Elmarit or one of the Summarits. I had a Summarit 75mm and cannot agree with the bad press they get.

[adan]

15 minutes ago, Banci said:

Thank you guys!

I really don't like the Summarits, they may have a great IQ but they feel cheap to me..

Which are you going to sell to a gallery or museum or magazine, and which will you hang on your wall or post to the Internet - your lens, or the pictures it makes?

I kid - mostly. A solid well-made lens will last longer. And hold value longer (if one is an investment banker rather than a photographer). Balance rather than absolute weight is usually more important. And something that feels good in the hand and doesn't distract from the act of photography is a plus.

[Anakronox]

If you’re looking for a unified look between all of your glass, you’re going to want a Summarit-M 90 or APO Summicron-M 90.  The Elmarit-M is an awesome lens and I love mine, but I tend to pair it with my Summicron-M 50 and Ultron 35 because the rendering is more classical.  If you don’t mind having a different feel to the shots with your 90, the most recent Elmarit-M 90 with collapsible hood is a solid bet. 

[wda]

2 hours ago, Banci said:

Thank you guys!

I really don't like the Summarits, they may have a great IQ but they feel cheap to me..

I suspect that is a psychological reaction based on its lower price. Cheap it most certainly isn't.

[Banci]

1 hour ago, wda said:

I suspect that is a psychological reaction based on its lower price. Cheap it most certainly isn't.

Not the price but the build quality.. The Elmarit-M is cheaper but I prefere it's build quality.

[Jeff S]

7 minutes ago, Banci said:

Not the price but the build quality.. The Elmarit-M is cheaper but I prefere it's build quality.

Build quality is fine, especially the most recent iterations with modern hood.  If it were double the price, and marketed differently, they would never had to discontinue the line.  
 

Jeff

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Hallo,

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[Gerbs]

Don't forget that if you go with the Macro-Elmar, you'll need the Leica Macro-Adapter-M to take advantage of what macro capabilities it has. Another significant investment. However, it can be paired with other lenses for other effects, and can make a pinhole lens into a zoom lens, so it is a fun addition to a kit. Personally, I've come to really enjoy the Macro-Elmar because of it's adaptability. So for hiking around in nature I think it's a great lens. For portrait work there would be a better choice, I think.