M240 to the new M10-R , Is it really worth the upgrade?

[Torontoamateur]

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I predominately do prints. I like the 13x19 size bit sometimes go larger for wall display. My subjects are the family and landscapes. I have the Summulix new style lenses. Will I really benefit from the upgrade from 24MP to 41MP? What is your experience?

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[robsonj]

I remember the days when it was thought that nothing more than about 6mp was needed because that was about the resolution of some film's supposedly. Personally though the increased resolution is appealing for future proofing of my photos, one day we'll be sat behind 16k monitors and my 8mp files I took years ago on digital are gonna start to look like postage stamps.

I am playing devils advocate to an extent as I won't be upgrading any time soon, I do also have a A7rIV that I use and like you say, regardless of screen resolution, you'll always be able to print at 13x19 quite reasonably.

As much as the resolution of the R is appealing, the supposed increased DR over the 240 is what really interests me.

[Jeff S]

Are you happy with your prints?  If not, why?

Jeff

[jaeger]

only if you crop a lot.

[CosmoM3]

Going from the M240 to the M10-R is a big rabbit hole in my opinion. The M10-R is less forgiving on sharpness on older lenses, therefore to fully take advantage of that sensor and notice a tangible difference, you'll probably will need to upgrade to the newer ASPH II lenses which was designed to resolve to higher MP sensors (noted by Peter Karbe himself).

[Guest]

I made big prints with my minolta x-700 and mamiya c-330 years ago and years before that photographers were getting great enlargements so its not some special thing that only the M10R or sony ,hasselblad bla bla bla can do.

Im sure new M10R is great but if a photographer knows the camera he is using inside out and is pleased with it he will get better results than if he/she upgrades every time the latest and greatest come out.

In my view.

[Ted Lemon]

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I print to up to A2 size at home - which the files from my MP240 are generally fine with and I crop to 4x5 as my preferred point of view. So when the M10R was released I thought why bother? Then I upgraded my Q to a Q2 and wow the extra detail in the large prints compared to the Q is amazing. I would say, with little technical know how, that the Q2 prints at A2 with greater detail as the Q did at A3.  So I am also a thinking of what to do next. However I am going to wait until I see where Leica take the M Range next. It maybe a few years but I think it worth the wait.  

Edited September 12, 2020 by Ted Lemon

[mike3996]

I am happy with the sizes I print -- 20"x30". I'm ready to jump to M10R not because of the pixel dimensions, but because of the other sensor advancements that help with my sometimes careless shooting.

[RayD28]

I'm interested in the M10R for better high ISO capabilities.  The 41MP is secondary but most welcome.  Even if the price I get for M-P 240 is good, the cost difference makes it a stretch.  I'm satisfied with the M-P for now.  

 

[jaeger]

On 9/11/2020 at 4:40 PM, steve 1959 said:

330 years ago and years before that photographers were getting great enlargements

wow...

[84bravo]

I don't have an M10R, but I do have an M10P and an M-P 240. The 240 images are warmer overall and I prefer the color from the M10. I would assume that the M10R would be similar in that regard.

[martinot]

1 hour ago, 84bravo said:

I don't have an M10R, but I do have an M10P and an M-P 240. The 240 images are warmer overall and I prefer the color from the M10. I would assume that the M10R would be similar in that regard.

Are you talking about the RAW sensor files, or the in-camera developed JPEG files?

[Henry Taylor]

 I don't think so. I'm now  looking at getting back  into a good used  M 240.  I am having a problem handling my new Fuji GJX 50R  when shoot with the 23mm or 32-64 zoom.  I injured my left shoulder rotor cup and the doctor  after looking  at my MRI told me he couldn't operate. It now has become difficult for me to hold on using both hands with  the larger medium format so I'm putting up for sell the new Fuji  and 3 lenses.   It was nice having the 50 M's but  I'm sure it's not going to be a problem with the M240  enlarging over "13x19" if I want to . 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Henry Taylor
add words

[84bravo]

8 hours ago, martinot said:

Are you talking about the RAW sensor files, or the in-camera developed JPEG files?

RAW files. I seldom, if ever shoot JPEG. I find the 240 produces much warmer files which require more time in post for me to clean up. I do use auto white balance a lot, though. The M10 seems to produce cleaner files for me overall in terms of color balance. That said, the 240 is a fine camera and is the best bang for the buck right now for anyone on a budget looking for a used M digital body.

[david strachan]

On 9/10/2020 at 11:49 PM, Torontoamateur said:

I predominately do prints. I like the 13x19 size bit sometimes go larger for wall display. My subjects are the family and landscapes. I have the Summulix new style lenses. Will I really benefit from the upgrade from 24MP to 41MP? What is your experience?

No. You won't benefit...it's about how well you process the images...just as darkroom workers have shown us over the last century.

There is always a new shiny toy dangling the carrot, but if you can resist, you'll be a richer person.

...

[Casey Jefferson]

2 hours ago, 84bravo said:

RAW files. I seldom, if ever shoot JPEG. I find the 240 produces much warmer files which require more time in post for me to clean up. I do use auto white balance a lot, though. The M10 seems to produce cleaner files for me overall in terms of color balance. That said, the 240 is a fine camera and is the best bang for the buck right now for anyone on a budget looking for a used M digital body.

The warmer color signature seems to go well with the 35/2 cron asph which supposedly having pinkish rendering, which is the one and only lens I have/need. I wonder about the M10R too and how the color signature compare. Not so much about the resolution, the dynamic range will be a significant upgrade from M240.

[jaapv]

If the files are a lot of work to process to for colour there is a simple solution: buy an X-Rite Color Passport and make a decent profile. To do so (at least for the major post-processing programs) is as easy as falling off a log.

[jto555]

To the OP. Who are you printing the prints for? Most non-photographic people looking at prints made with an M240 and a M10-R would not see the difference unless it was pointed out to them. Content and processing are more important in my opinion. If you need more sharpness, an idea to try is a Photoshop plugin like Topaz Sharpen AI. It makes the print feel like it has more detail.

 

In saying that the M10-R is a better camera with more Dynamic Range, better ISO, as well as more pixels. Plus it has a quieter shutter. If I was in the marker for a new M camera that is what I would get but for the present the M240 is still a great camera for me.

 

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[martinot]

On 9/14/2020 at 3:38 AM, 84bravo said:

RAW files. I seldom, if ever shoot JPEG. I find the 240 produces much warmer files which require more time in post for me to clean up. I do use auto white balance a lot, though. 

Yes, I mostly use RAW/DNG as well. That said WB should not change the RAW files (it is only for the in camera development of the JPEG files).

So it is likely down to sensor difference; if you have made sure that your RAW development software (Lr, C1, etc.) do not apply their automatic camera preset profiles (they do that by default), that always tries to mimic the respective cameras normal in-camera processed JPEGs colour profile as much as possible.

Edited September 15, 2020 by martinot

[martinot]

18 hours ago, jto555 said:

To the OP. Who are you printing the prints for? Most non-photographic people looking at prints made with an M240 and a M10-R would not see the difference unless it was pointed out to them. Content and processing are more important in my opinion. If you need more sharpness, an idea to try is a Photoshop plugin like Topaz Sharpen AI. It makes the print feel like it has more detail.

In saying that the M10-R is a better camera with more Dynamic Range, better ISO, as well as more pixels. Plus it has a quieter shutter. If I was in the marker for a new M camera that is what I would get but for the present the M240 is still a great camera for me.

 

Yes, I think the choice on buying new M systems today is (at least as I personally see it) basically just down to two cameras for most users to really consider; either the M240 for a limited/reasonable budget, or the M10-R for a much less limited budget.

The improved shutter on the M-P 240 and my M-E 240 is quite quiet I think, but l do appreciate the higher ISO and DR capability I see in the photos from the M10-R.

Leica made very good improvements already with the M10 sensor, but the new one in the M10-R seems to be a really great sensor. Just wish Leica also had upgraded the CPU and memory at the same time to better match and cope with the increased resolution (the camera electronics seems to slow down considerably with the increased amount of data that has to be processed from the M10-R sensor).

Edited September 15, 2020 by martinot