Compact SL soon?

[bags27]

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3 hours ago, Jk1002 said:

I could totally see them replace the CL with a full frame CL2. The TL lenses coming in at 20 megapixels on a SL2 type sensor do make a lot of sense to me for keeping the overall size in check when that is important.

Cheers

JK

It will almost certainly be ASP-C.

https://www.macfilos.com/2020/05/18/leica-aps-c-is-a-continuing-part-of-our-product-range/

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[LocalHero1953]

There would be a marketing benefit in making a full frame CL2, but no practical photographic benefit. Those who NEED full frame and high res sensors in a Leica will go for another body: M10R, SL2, S3. For 99% of photographers APS-C and 24mp would show little or no difference switching to FF and more pixels.

[LocalHero1953]

The S5 might make sense for Panasonic, which has no smaller FF (or APS-C) body, and which needs something compact that improves on the IQ of MFT bodies (the S5 is a bit big for this even so). A Leica equivalent would be compared with the M and the CL. Without a new range of small FF L-mount lenses, it would offer little benefit over the SL2, and (IMO) it would be too bulky and heavy to attract those who want an EVF platform for M lenses. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by LocalHero1953

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

There would be a marketing benefit in making a full frame CL2, but no practical photographic benefit.

Well, my 24mm lens would be a real wide angle lens again, not a 35mm equivalent. That's a very practical advantage for me.

[LocalHero1953]

Just now, Joachim_I said:

Well, my 24mm lens would be a real wide angle lens again, not a 35mm equivalent. That's a very practical advantage for me.

True, but for those without a 24mm already, a 16mm would give you the same FoV without the downsides of a bigger body - that would be my preference.
These things are not black and white, I agree.

[lct]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

There would be a marketing benefit in making a full frame CL2, but no practical photographic benefit. Those who NEED full frame and high res sensors in a Leica will go for another body: M10R, SL2, S3. For 99% of photographers APS-C and 24mp would show little or no difference switching to FF and more pixels.

Some people do like compact FF mirrorless cameras. Besides compact APS-C and bulky FF cameras, they (we) have no Leica choice but rangefinders with a sluggish accessory EVF.

[LocalHero1953]

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4 minutes ago, lct said:

Some people do like compact FF mirrorless cameras. Besides compact APS-C and bulky FF cameras, they (we) have no Leica choice but rangefinders with a sluggish accessory EVF.

I have no problem with compact FF mirrorless cameras. First define 'compact'! I don't consider the S5 compact, and I see the M10 as on the upper end of the 'compact' spectrum.

The Sigma fp is the size of the TL2, (at the expense of no EVF). Add an EVF to a Sigma fp and it would still be the smallest FF*.

 

*In the fp I willingly sacrifice the mechanical shutter for the moment. In the longer term, fast global shutters will eliminate the disadvantages of current electronic shutters. Eliminating mechanical shutters makes cameras much smaller (the Q/Q2 goes part way there with its leaf shutter)

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, Joachim_I said:

Well, my 24mm lens would be a real wide angle lens again, not a 35mm equivalent. That's a very practical advantage for me.

Quite, but it does not mandate a slightly smaller body. The point being that the SL2 is not THAT big - the size excess is mostly in the lenses.

[jaapv]

11 hours ago, Jk1002 said:

I could totally see them replace the CL with a full frame CL2. The TL lenses coming in at 20 megapixels on a SL2 type sensor do make a lot of sense to me for keeping the overall size in check when that is important.

Cheers

JK

Unlikely. If they would be able to make a more-or-less CL-sized full frame, it would be of more commercial interest to get the APS CL2 down to real Leica Standard size or add useful features like IBIS, High-res and 4(6) K stuff - Pre-release, focus stacking and post-focus.

[LocalHero1953]

Following on from a notion in my earlier post...... does anyone know if there is a practical fast global electronic shutter available or imminent for APS-C or FF? That would make a CL2 interesting: dumping the focal plane shutter and creating ample  space for IBIS, a larger (or less lumpy) EVF, and better cooling.

[lct]

2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

have no problem with compact FF mirrorless cameras. First define 'compact'!

Something like that

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[LocalHero1953]

49 minutes ago, lct said:

Something like that

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Too many lumps and bumps for me. I'd run a power grinder across the Sony top plate. I hope the CL2 will have had that treatment. The minimalist lines are an attractive feature of the M & T/TL2.

[jaapv]

Whatever else, we can argue this till the cows come home, but Leica will march to its own tune and surprise the pundits time and time again.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I don't know about a *smaller* SL but I think Leica would benefit from a SL2 with the 24MP sensor from the S1 in it. Even the M has high and low resolution variants now. The S1 high ISO performance is epic and it'd be a valuable addition to the SL line up. Maybe it could spit out 8K video for the review bloggers to drool over.

Also would a set of Elmarit SL primes.

As for the CL, I don't see the point unless they either add IBIS to the existing sensor or  a new sensor with more MP arrives.

Gordon

[lct]

Here's the little (?) beast.
Source: https://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/lumix/s/s5.html

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[caissa]

Absolutely no value in this picture. The question is, what has been taken away to make it smaller and cheaper ?  Is ibis gone ? Or some video features ? A weaker EVF, how weak ? And how much lighter is it ?  Or only 12 MP like the new Sony ? (They said 24Mp or not ?)

Edited August 20, 2020 by caissa

[caissa]

On 8/17/2020 at 11:21 PM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I don't know about a *smaller* SL but I think Leica would benefit from a SL2 with the 24MP sensor from the S1 in it. Even the M has high and low resolution variants now. The S1 high ISO performance is epic and it'd be a valuable addition to the SL line up. Maybe it could spit out 8K video for the review bloggers to drool over.

Also would a set of Elmarit SL primes.

As for the CL, I don't see the point unless they either add IBIS to the existing sensor or  a new sensor with more MP arrives.

Gordon

How much cheaper could a 24 MP “SL2r” be ? Maybe only 500$ .  Would that be attractive ?

[lct]

5 hours ago, caissa said:

Absolutely no value in this picture. The question is, what has been taken away to make it smaller and cheaper ?  Is ibis gone ? Or some video features ? A weaker EVF, how weak ? And how much lighter is it ?  Or only 12 MP like the new Sony ? (They said 24Mp or not ?)

Those leaked (or fake?) specs might address some of your questions: https://t.co/5rIb8Ggs0T?amp=1.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[BernardC]

16 hours ago, lct said:

Here's the little (?) beast.
Source: https://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/lumix/s/s5.html

I was hoping they would use a different form factor, like a top-corner EVF. That being said, it makes sense for them to produce an SLR-like camera. The main complaint about the S1 is that it's too expensive, compared to Canon/Nikon/Sony. That makes it a hard sell. The S5 looks like an S1, so it's still a "serious camera," but it will be sold at a price that is more compatible with younger photographers' budgets.

[BernardC]

9 hours ago, caissa said:

How much cheaper could a 24 MP “SL2r” be ? Maybe only 500$ .  Would that be attractive ?

The R&D on the SL/Q/M10 sensor must be paid-off by now. They could release a Q-like camera for $2,000 less than the SL2.

It wouldn't cannibalize their sales either. Leica people need both cameras! (...and an M, and a Q, and a film M, and a Barnack, etc.).