Opinions on Sony cameras with Leica M lenses

[Ravenclau]

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Hello everyone,,

I've seen some of the older posts on this topic, but does anyone have personal experience comparing a digital Leica with one of the Sony bodies? I have a few M lenses for my M6, but can't justify the cost of a new Leica. Do the Sonys compare or will I end up lusting for an M10?

[jaapv]

Why a new Leica? 

[pippy]

It depends on whether you prefer to use Sony cameras or Leica cameras.

This might sound obvious but perhaps it isn't? Using a Leica digital M is nothing like using a Sony and vice versa. For all intents and purposes as far as the end result is concerned both marques make superb bodies capable of phenomenal results so IQ shouldn't be the deciding factor here. Your personal preference is the deciding factor.

Philip.

Edited July 25, 2020 by pippy

[IkarusJohn]

Which lenses?  Some play nice with the Sonys, some don’t.

[jaeger]

Any 24MP sensor camera will do - you only need intermediate lightroom skill level to achieve any Leica look on the planet.  I use M only because of the RF, others are size or what not.  As Jaapv implied, a used M is as good. 

Edited July 26, 2020 by jaeger

[tgray]

For me, the Sony isn’t worth it for M lenses. It’s okay with 75mm and up pretty much across the board. Rule of thumb is 50 and narrower is okay, but my A7rII is not good with my 50 Summilux ASPH. It’s okay with the 50 ZM Sonnar, but does some funky things at the edges. It was horrible with my 28 mm lenses (Summicron), and worse with the wider lenses.  The only ones I use with any regularity are the ZM Sonnar and 90 Summicron pre APSH. 
 

That being said, depending on the lens, it *can* be good with some lenses, even wide ones, depending on what they are. It is my understanding that the newer Voigtlander lenses are decent. But those have been released in similar formulations for Sony native mount. Some newer Leica lenses are okay too (28 Summilux?). 
 

So, long story short, it can be okay depending on the lens. But I’d personally rather shoot native mount Zeiss and Voigtlander lenses on my Sony (and do) than my Leica lenses. Some of them are quite good. You can get some good deals on used Zeiss Loxia lenses for Sony. The 21 and 25 Loxia lenses are pretty amazing. Also, check out the fredmiranda.com Sony forum for a lot of tests of lenses on Sony.

[tgray]

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Should have added - all of my M and LTM lenses are superior on the M10M. 

[TomB_tx]

I have used M lenses down to 35mm on my base A7 and had nice results - when the important details were in the center half of the image. The edges get pretty smeared even with a 50mm M lens - so it depends on what you value in the image. 90mm M lenses & up are fine.

The A7 is quite good with my Leica R lenses, even at 24mm, so I use it mainly as my digital R solution. I use it a lot with my 60mm macro for close work. (Actually the smaller Pentax “SMC-M” K mount lenses are better sized for the A7, and make a nice combination.)

[Keith (M)]

No complaints with M lenses of 35mm & upwards on my A7III.  As regards R lenses, results from my 21-35mm Vario @ 21mm are perfectly acceptable.  IBIS is the plus-point, the menus are the minus-point!

35mm Summaron f2.8 @ f8.

 

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[JTLeica]

For the love of god dont buy a Sony A7 just to use Leica lenses. Thick sensor stack meaning many (not just the wide) lenses do not work well. Any lens with anything but a very direct angle of light from the rear element will not work well. I had an A7RII and A7II, neither worked great.

The M10 or any other M is a much better solution. If you dont want a rangefinder (and that's understandable) either an SL or a Nikon Z7 with much thinner stacks work well.

I have a Z7 along with other cameras and I was really surprised how well it works. To the point that I might buy a couple of tiny lenses for it to compliment my Q2. There are a few lenses like the 50mm Lux APSH, 35 Lux ASPH, that still are not good, or the 21mm SE, but its vastly better than the Sony. Plus good luck with Sony haptics

That being said the Sony was fine with 28mm Summilux, 28mm Elmarit, 50mm Lux Pre Asph, 75mm Lux, 90mm Apo, 135mm Apo and F4.

Edited July 26, 2020 by JTLeica

[sinjun]

I use and really like a Sony A7S with a thin filter stack fitted by Kolari four or five years ago. Works very well with all my M lenses, including wides,  and I find it complements my M9 very well. The button layout and menu system is pretty awful, but I hardly use them. I find the size great - full frame at a size not much larger than Leica CL. The modification messes up the auto white balance but I get by pretty well with presets and manual adjustments.

[easy_action]

I have used 24mp Sony bodies plenty of times with Leica lenses 35mm fl and up, and the results were fine imo.

What put me off was the rigmorale to achieve good focus ....

1. frame image in viewfinder/screen approximately

2. press button once or twice to zoom in either a little or a lot

3. use joystick to move zoomed-in box around to chosen point of focus

4. rack focus back and forth until happy (peaking may or may not help here)

5. press button again to zoom back out to the original frame (if you zoomed just a little, have to press the button twice to cycle back to the full image starting point)

6. re-adjust frame as composition/subject inevitably changed while doing all of the above, and you can't see the full frame while zoomed in

7. take photo, OR get shouted at by wife as the the children's perfect once in a lifetime pose disappeared 3 seconds ago

If I had to argue against using a Sony body with manual focus lenses this is my biggest issue. 

[tomasis7]

if you want use streetphotography and take shoots fast, a RF is the choice. 

With Sony, I would use tripod photography or record movie. Thats all. If you dont want postprocess, then a Leica is easier. 

[Simone_DF]

If you want to use a Sony esclusively with M lenses, you can have the sensor modified by the Kolari guys to get a thinner sensor stack and higher compatibility with M glass.

There are lenses that work well without the need of a mod. I use 90mm Elmarit, 21mm Ultron and 50mm Sonnar without problems. The Zeiss 35mm Distagon is ok except in the extreme corners. The Vogitlander 35mm 1.2 II also worked really well. Not sure about the newer model.

The 50 Summilux and in general all lenses with a FLE do not work well. That said, I still find it great for portraits if you use the wavy field curvature to your advantage. 

Another plus is the ability to autofocus with the Techart adapter. For what it is, it works well, including eye AF, as long as the subject is in the central area. 

Have a look on Fred Miranda's forum, there's a list of all compatible lenses.

[lct]

2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

The 50 Summilux and in general all lenses with a FLE do not work well.

No problem on my Kolari mod A7s. Here with 50/1.4 asph.
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-PmvQqzv/0/06763d40/X5/i-PmvQqzv-X5.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FbDbn5Z/0/cca7fb88/X5/i-FbDbn5Z-X5.jpg

 

[pgk]

On 7/25/2020 at 9:36 PM, Ravenclau said:

.....but does anyone have personal experience comparing a digital Leica with one of the Sony bodies? I have a few M lenses for my M6, but can't justify the cost of a new Leica. Do the Sonys compare or will I end up lusting for an M10?

I have M9s and snow A7IIs. M lenses work ok on the Sonys but not perfectly as you will have read. Still for the most part they aren't that bad in all honesty and only those interested in the absolutes of performance will notice where they aren't as good. Sny A7s can be had quite cheap and so are a low cost way of using your M lenses. But the Sony interface drives me to distraction. Its a mess. I simply leave mine in manual because its by far the easiest way of using them. Given that you will pay 4~5x as much for a used M series digital body than you will for some A7 series bodies its as good a way as any of deciding if you want to go down that route. In the end though you will probably still lust after an M series body which is an infinitely more elegant way of using M lenses on a digital body than a Sony. But given the price of Sonys you won't lose much on buying, trying and reselling one.

[convexferret]

On 7/27/2020 at 1:09 PM, easy_action said:

I have used 24mp Sony bodies plenty of times with Leica lenses 35mm fl and up, and the results were fine imo.

What put me off was the rigmorale to achieve good focus ....

1. frame image in viewfinder/screen approximately

2. press button once or twice to zoom in either a little or a lot

3. use joystick to move zoomed-in box around to chosen point of focus

4. rack focus back and forth until happy (peaking may or may not help here)

5. press button again to zoom back out to the original frame (if you zoomed just a little, have to press the button twice to cycle back to the full image starting point)

6. re-adjust frame as composition/subject inevitably changed while doing all of the above, and you can't see the full frame while zoomed in

7. take photo, OR get shouted at by wife as the the children's perfect once in a lifetime pose disappeared 3 seconds ago

If I had to argue against using a Sony body with manual focus lenses this is my biggest issue. 

There's a way quicker way to do this

1. Frame image

2. Move magnification point over thing that you want to focus on (without zooming in yet or changing framing)

3. Zoom in

4. Focus

5. Fire (You image is anchored on the focus point and so you won't have wandered)

Edited July 28, 2020 by convexferret

[Ray Vonn]

With all the recent and new mirrorless offerings, I wonder if there's a "best" external camera to use adapted M lenses.

[lct]

The one with thinner sensor stack i suspect.

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Hallo,

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[Jon Glass]

19 minutes ago, Ray Vonn said:

With all the recent and new mirrorless offerings, I wonder if there's a "best" external camera to use adapted M lenses.

That's exactly the question I'm trying to find an answer to, and my searches led me here!  I have some lenses for my MP, but sold my digital kit a while back to fund that.  I can't afford a digital M because wife and future babies, so hoping there's an ideal non-Leica digital that can host M lenses with an adapter that won't break the bank.