50 Elmar-M vs SummiCron/Lux

[didier]

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My copy of the ‘lux asph is not very good wide open at close distance; that’s why I don’t like it too much for portait.

I prefer the ‘corn 50 or the Elmar-M (or even more the APO 50  )

 

Didier

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[Pixeleater]

On 7/14/2020 at 10:48 AM, farnz said:

Ah, my apologies, in my mind I wrongly had it down as the pre-asph.  I owned the 50 Summilux asph for 10 years and while I liked it I never considered it a special lens in the way that the f/1 Noctilux is but a very well designed lens that produced crisp, 'clean' pictures.  I prefer the pre-asph or the Black Chrome versions now although I'm straying off topic so I'll stop.

Pete.

Pete, what is it about the Black Chrome version that makes it your preference? This interests me as I have the current 50 lux and choose it owing to the weight difference and built-in hood. I'm fascinated by the decision tree of lens selection.

Paul

[farnz]

43 minutes ago, Pixeleater said:

Pete, what is it about the Black Chrome version that makes it your preference? This interests me as I have the current 50 lux and choose it owing to the weight difference and built-in hood. I'm fascinated by the decision tree of lens selection.

Paul

Hi Paul,

I had my 50/1.4 Summilux asph (standard) for about 10 years from new and the focus ring was always quite 'heavy' and a bit jerky.  I was frequently told that over time it would become smooth and lighter as it wore in but after 10 years of not changing at all the words wore a bit thin. Don't get me wrong, it's an astonishing lens particularly wide-open in its crispness, rendering of minute detail and smooth out of focus areas but over time my taste has changed to preferring lenses with a little character over those that produce sharp-as-a-razor, high contrast pictures.

The 50/1.4 'Retro' Summilux asph Black Chrome's focussing ring was as smooth as butter out of the box, the scalloped ring is a an excellent haptic and it has a 43 mm filter thread (compared to the 'standard' Summilux's 46 mm) that wide-open gives a subtle vignette that's quite similar to the gorgeous subtle vignette from my 50/1 Noctilux.  The pictures are no less sharp than the other Summilux asph but, for me, the subtle vignette just takes the 'edge' off and makes all the difference.

It's also a strange thing that side by side the lenses are the same size but the absence of the sliding hood and the reduced filter thread give the illusion that the retro is smaller and more compact.

Pete.

[aires35iii]

On 9/29/2020 at 2:00 PM, didier said:

My copy of the ‘lux asph is not very good wide open at close distance; that’s why I don’t like it too much for portait.

I prefer the ‘corn 50 or the Elmar-M (or even more the APO 50  )

 

Didier

Bonjour Didier,

Please, could you tell us what are the advantages of the Apo ? I am looking desperately for this information : does this one give a far better shadows and lights separation, and  color rendition ? I don’t care about sharpness.

By the way, since the Summilux don’t please you wide open, why don’t using it at 2.8, similar to the elmar (or 2.0 similar to the Apo) ?

Edited October 25, 2020 by aires35iii

[a.noctilux]

1 hour ago, aires35iii said:

Bonjour Didier,

...

By the way, since the Summilux don’t please you wide open, why don’t using it at 2.8, similar to the elmar (or 2.0 similar to the Apo) ?

I was a big fan of the Summilux-M 50mm asph., but not now because after using for years, the "Ninja Stars" on bright lights ( at f.2 to f/4 ) did not do well.

So now I use the non-asph version as before for the more pleasing "rounder" hight lights.

See here, this thread

 

Have a look for more, here

...

 

Side note ...

the link below (not from me) may lead to think that the Lux asph. can do very well for portrait

non-review of the Summilux-M 50mm asph.

 

Continuing with this very informative reading,

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2014/10/bokeh-kings/

Edited October 25, 2020 by a.noctilux

[RayD28]

On 7/13/2020 at 12:35 PM, UliWer said:

3. Summilux-M asph.:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

UliWer, do you recall the point of focus for each shot?  

 

On 7/13/2020 at 6:39 PM, Ko.Fe. said:

 

I'm broadcast engineer and ex graphic artist and just a dude who is spending every possible chance to look at modern art in museums and galleries. And I have many photo books from BW film masters.

Would it be well taken, processed, edited motion picture, impressionists painting or Karsh taken portrait I never look at bokeh. If quality of the subject is present, bokeh is irrelevant.  

Or maybe they all knew how to avoid crappy bokeh...

Sometimes I like a lot of blur because it can make the subject pop with a 3-D effect, but the point of the blur is to bring attention to the subject and not to the quality of the blur.  Sometimes blur can be distracting, especially when it comes to huge colored circles or hexagons.  That statement is a generalization but I believe everyone will get my point.  

[jaapv]

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On 9/29/2020 at 7:10 PM, farnz said:

Hi Paul,

I had my 50/1.4 Summilux asph (standard) for about 10 years from new and the focus ring was always quite 'heavy' and a bit jerky.  I was frequently told that over time it would become smooth and lighter as it wore in but after 10 years of not changing at all the words wore a bit thin. Don't get me wrong, it's an astonishing lens particularly wide-open in its crispness, rendering of minute detail and smooth out of focus areas but over time my taste has changed to preferring lenses with a little character over those that produce sharp-as-a-razor, high contrast pictures.

The 50/1.4 'Retro' Summilux asph Black Chrome's focussing ring was as smooth as butter out of the box, the scalloped ring is a an excellent haptic and it has a 43 mm filter thread (compared to the 'standard' Summilux's 46 mm) that wide-open gives a subtle vignette that's quite similar to the gorgeous subtle vignette from my 50/1 Noctilux.  The pictures are no less sharp than the other Summilux asph but, for me, the subtle vignette just takes the 'edge' off and makes all the difference.

It's also a strange thing that side by side the lenses are the same size but the absence of the sliding hood and the reduced filter thread give the illusion that the retro is smaller and more compact.

Pete.

Mine went through Leica CS years ago for misfocus at short distances and it came back buttery smooth.

[aires35iii]

12 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

I was a big fan of the Summilux-M 50mm asph., but not now because after using for years, the "Ninja Stars" on bright lights ( at f.2 to f/4 ) did not do well.

So now I use the non-asph version as before for the more pleasing "rounder" hight lights.

See here, this thread […]

Merci Arnaud. It’s interesting. Actually I am obsessed by Bokeh from the beginnig of my pictures decades ago, when this was not so-called, and surprizingly, the ninja-stars don’t bother me. I like the smooth(-est ?) Summilux-asph rendering, but in fact I perfer a bit more harsh out-of-focus which leads to my opinion to a more dynamic image. Thus I like the Summicron V too, and the Elmar, which shows a more nervous out-of-focus. But whereas the Summicron V has predictible out-of-focus results, the Elmar seems rendering randomly depending of the focusing distance. One of my favourite lens regards to this point is… the Bronica 65/4 for the wonderful RF645. Less good in color than Leica’s but with a lot of character.

Pre-Asph Summilux comparison tests convinced me that I prefer the Asph version more :  not for the bokeh rendering nor the sharpness, but for the details in shadows and highlights. To my eyes it shows a huge difference and a taste of a new era in photography.

So the Apo-Summicron may be a good compromise : harsher out-of focus, and even more details in high contrasts ? But I am not sure of such improvement compared to the Summilux asph.

[didier]

On 10/25/2020 at 9:24 AM, aires35iii said:

Bonjour Didier,

Please, could you tell us what are the advantages of the Apo ? I am looking desperately for this information : does this one give a far better shadows and lights separation, and  color rendition ? I don’t care about sharpness.

By the way, since the Summilux don’t please you wide open, why don’t using it at 2.8, similar to the elmar (or 2.0 similar to the Apo) ?

Bonjour aires35iii

I prefer the APO 50 over all my other 50s because for its sharpness (the Lens is way sharper than the other ones) but even more for its great clarity (difficult to define it with more precision, I would say pure colors, better separation - just the opposite of muddy  - it works with color but also in B&W ). There is a different 3D pop with this lens.

And about bokeh, I like the OOF rendering of the APO more than the lux

 

Didier

 

[aires35iii]

21 hours ago, didier said:

Bonjour aires35iii

I prefer the APO 50 over all my other 50s because for its sharpness (the Lens is way sharper than the other ones) but even more for its great clarity (difficult to define it with more precision, I would say pure colors, better separation - just the opposite of muddy  - it works with color but also in B&W ). There is a different 3D pop with this lens.

And about bokeh, I like the OOF rendering of the APO more than the lux

 

Didier

 

Thank you Didier, this is a nice information. Indeed I appreciate the Apo Summicron’s Bokeh most than the Summilux-Asph too.