TL2 discontinued ? Confirmed by Sigma ?

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vor 9 Minuten schrieb nicci78:

Three to five years of regular firmware updates are expected nowadays.

Well. I personally judge a camera by the quality of pictures it makes, by the ease and reliability with which it allows me to take my pictures and, perhaps, by the arsenal of lenses and accessories which extend its functions. If the frequency of software patches was a criterium, I'd think the fewer the better. I rather prefer my camera do be a finished product by the time I buy it and I take a very dim view of unsolicited changes, particularly with the handling of the basic functions.

Spending more than four decades in the IT business has taught me a thing or two about software in appliances that's never quite where it should have been right from the beginning.

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[LocalHero1953]

42 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

You are weird. If I owned a TL2, I would have been vocal about this situation. 

I would want it to be a full member of L-mount family, not a backseat member. Only fully compatible with Leica TL/SL lenses. 

Don't be too nice with Leica, otherwise you will be screwed. They have no excuse at all. Three to five years of regular firmware updates are expected nowadays. Only one is not okay. Far from it. T & TL got four ! (TL is a T, renamed for copyright issue with T mobile) 

TL2 destiny should not be linked with 2014 released T/TL cameras. 

 

 

 

I think you have just reached that moment in your life, @nicci78, that everyone reaches at some time or other, when you find that not everyone agrees with you.

[nicci78]

Speak for yourself. 

Hopefully everybody is entitled to its own thoughts, myself included. So I am vocal about it.

And I even have some solid hints behind it. So what's the problem ?  I like Leica, but I am not blind enough to give a free pass to them. If my favourite brand makes a mistake, I will tell the whole world to get it fixed. Don't care about the brand image. Then the potential loss of value of my gear. 

They sold products, they have responsibilities.  At least they can be honest and say something about this situation.

Dropped support or not ? If not ? When is the next firmware update ? You see, it is easy to reassure everybody.  

I would have been happy to buy TL2 as a wingman to my CL. But still no improvement of AF, to bring it on par with CL. No new lenses for years. And now no updates for L-mount ? Too many weird things are happening around TL2. At least to many to buy one. 

Edited June 22, 2020 by nicci78

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, nicci78 said:

You are weird. If I owned a TL2, I would have been vocal about this situation. 

I would want it to be a full member of L-mount family, not a backseat member. Only fully compatible with Leica TL/SL lenses. 

Don't be too nice with Leica, otherwise you will be screwed. They have no excuse at all. Three to five years of regular firmware updates are expected nowadays. Only one is not okay. Far from it. T & TL got four ! (TL is a T, renamed for copyright issue with T mobile) 

TL2 destiny should not be linked with 2014 released T/TL cameras. 

 

 

 

Well, I own a TL2.  I bought it as a backup for my M and SL cameras - smaller and useful.  Of course, when I bought it, I got a couple of TL mount lenses (note, TL mount, not CL mount) - the 35 and the 11-23 zoom.  The rest of the time, I use my smaller M mount lenses (28 Summaron and 35 Summilux) for a compact package.

I’m not sure what I need a firmware upgrade for - the camera works flawlessly.  I have no interest in the Panasonic or Sigma L-mount lenses.  I bought into Leica for its lenses ...

I can’t imagine why I would ever use my SL lenses with the TL2.  They’re huge, and the camera is APS-C.  What would I gain?  Leica has served me well.  When things go wrong, they fix them.

I’m not sure why you’ve been predicting the death of the TL2 for the last three years ....

[jaapv]

56 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Speak for yourself. 

Hopefully everybody is entitled to its own thoughts, myself included. So I am vocal about it.

And I even have some solid hints behind it. So what's the problem ?  I like Leica, but I am not blind enough to give a free pass to them. If my favourite brand makes a mistake, I will tell the whole world to get it fixed. Don't care about the brand image. Then the potential loss of value of my gear. 

They sold products, they have responsibilities.  At least they can be honest and say something about this situation.

Dropped support or not ? If not ? When is the next firmware update ? You see, it is easy to reassure everybody.  

 

The problem here is that there is no situation to clarify - The TL2 is for present a current camera that works well. What should Leica say? Reassure some conspiracy-theory victims on the Internet? Rather pointless.

[HuntingSand]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb nicci78:

You are weird. If I owned a TL2, I would have been vocal about this situation.

I would want it to be a full member of L-mount family, not a backseat member. Only fully compatible with Leica TL/SL lenses. 

Don't be too nice with Leica, otherwise you will be screwed. They have no excuse at all. Three to five years of regular firmware updates are expected nowadays. Only one is not okay. Far from it. T & TL got four ! (TL is a T, renamed for copyright issue with T mobile) 

TL2 destiny should not be linked with 2014 released T/TL cameras. 

 

 

 

Couldn't disagree more. What is weird is your obsession with integrating the T line into the Leica productivity mainstream. It was never meant to be (as I mentioned in another conversation, I have some background knowledge on this subject). You seem to feel entitled, and accuse TL2 customers of allowing the company to screw them. Well, man, chill out, work those excellent DNGs (pretty impressive features in the new Lightroom Classic 9.3 version!), go topple a statue if you care, and otherwise be safe in this pandemic. That's all I have to say. Roger and out. 

[IkarusJohn]

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Well, I guess there are two things to note - (1) the TL2 is a perfectly functioning camera (well, mine is) - I’m not sure I understand why cameras apparently need continual firmware upgrades; and (2) the camera is still listed - https://en.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-CL-TL2/Leica-TL2

But then, everything has a life cycle.  The TL2 will cease production at some point - either when there is a big improvement or it stops selling.  Since the CL was released, fans of that camera have been predicting its demise (for what reason, God only knows - it is quite common for manufacturers to have more than one version of a camera available).  What interests me is as the flames of excitement over the CL dies down, many people seem to have noticed that the TL2 is a good camera, with many features the CL doesn’t have.

In the end, the camera was made to last more than however many years since it was released, and mine will keep working long after whatever the next version is; like my SL ...

[Kim Dahl]

On 6/20/2020 at 10:22 PM, jaapv said:

What support does the TL2 need? It works just fine...

Can Any tell me why Leica Cl needs firmware but not Leica TL2? I do not understand 🙂

[jaapv]

Who knows? You would have to ask Leica. Personally would wish for a camera that does not need firmware updates at all, but it seems to be very hard for camera makers in general to develop a flawless product.

[NicholasT]

1 hour ago, Kim Dahl said:

Can Any tell me why Leica Cl needs firmware but not Leica TL2? I do not understand 🙂

One explanation/example is that one of the more significant updates to CL involved the addition of the simplified touch screen summary menu (first menu screen). TL2 doesn't require such a firmware upgrade since its user interface was conceived in this fashion in the first place i.e. its menu system doesn't need to be changed or upgraded.

Also CL is a completely different camera with several configurable inputs on the camera which by definition may require more "tweaking" to get them just right. The TL2 has none of these configurable dials or buttons so there really isn't much that can be changed. One either likes the camera as designed or one doesn't, but based on original camera design and user interface different cameras may require differing number of firmware updates.

I'm sure there are other features missing in TL2 and agree that TL2 has received less attention with regard to firmware updates than other models like the CL, but as many others have well stated drawing all these far reaching conclusions regarding a cameras usefulness to current owners or predicting its imminent demise based on the number of firmware updates seems unwise.

Edited June 23, 2020 by NicholasT

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Is the number of software releases for those cameras really that different? Remember, there have been three T type cameras in succession (T, TL, TL2) , while the CL is still in its first incarnation (well, the second one, but the first one did not use any software at all).

[EUSe]

Well, one thing I noticed, and many others on the German forum, are occasional lock-ups pointing to a somewhat instable firmware, but who knows. These lock-ups, that can be fixed by removing the battery, have been reported to Leica from the very beginning,  but up to now no obvious cause could be found. On the other hand I would expect an update involving non-Leica L-mount lenses (although I am not using any). We‘ll see what happens. Thirdly, it would be nice if the camera could be set to 1/2f, 1/3f or 1/4f manually. The. camera  chooses something like 1/2.5f automatically, which works in most cases, but not always.

Edited June 23, 2020 by EUSe

[Kim Dahl]

I have the Leica TL2 and there are things that can be improved on the TL2. It could be nice if you can choose M optics which is not 6 bit code as I understand you can on leica CL. To be completely honest I feel let down when I bought into a system early but the support fails. Some say that AF is improved on Leica Cl via firmware.

 

[Einst_Stein]

6 hours ago, Kim Dahl said:

Can Any tell me why Leica Cl needs firmware but not Leica TL2? I do not understand 🙂

Can you tell me what do you want from TL2 that needs firmware update, that CL's firmware update makes it?

What's in the firmware update?  what do you expect other than new lens or accessory supports and bug fix?

Edited June 23, 2020 by Einst_Stein

[jaapv]

3 hours ago, Kim Dahl said:

I have the Leica TL2 and there are things that can be improved on the TL2. It could be nice if you can choose M optics which is not 6 bit code as I understand you can on leica CL. To be completely honest I feel let down when I bought into a system early but the support fails. Some say that AF is improved on Leica Cl via firmware.

 

I would say that a drop-down list of lenses would be somewhat  contradictory to the concept of the camera.

[LocalHero1953]

6 hours ago, NicholasT said:

One explanation/example is that one of the more significant updates to CL involved the addition of the simplified touch screen summary menu (first menu screen). TL2 doesn't require such a firmware upgrade since its user interface was conceived in this fashion in the first place i.e. its menu system doesn't need to be changed or upgraded.

Also CL is a completely different camera with several configurable inputs on the camera which by definition may require more "tweaking" to get them just right. The TL2 has none of these configurable dials or buttons so there really isn't much that can be changed. One either likes the camera as designed or one doesn't, but based on original camera design and user interface different cameras may require differing number of firmware updates.

I'm sure there are other features missing in TL2 and agree that TL2 has received less attention with regard to firmware updates than other models like the CL, but as many others have well stated drawing all these far reaching conclusions regarding a cameras usefulness to current owners or predicting its imminent demise based on the number of firmware updates seems unwise.

I'm curious about this. I don't have a touch screen summary menu on my CL. I have a 'Favourites' menu, but it isn't touch enabled. The only touch option is focusing. Have I missed a firmware update (I'm on v3.2) or a buried menu item?

[miatadan]

Today, July 6, 2020 just ordered Leica TL2 starter kit with 18mm from B&H Photo in the USA.

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2020/05/save-1695-with-leica-tl2-18mm-starter-bundle/

Bundle pricing in US dollars $2295.00

I live in Canada and even with duties + tax , it was less money the Leica TL2 body by itself. Only lenses I will use is the Leica lenses. 

Last Leica I had was the Leica X Vario, so hopefully the TL2 will have as good photos that I achieved with the X Vario.

Which lenses would you choose if limited to 2 lenses total if including the 18mm

thanks

Dan

 

[IkarusJohn]

I use a 28 Summaron-M on mine, with an M-TL adapter.  Nice and compact, and the effective field of view of 42mm goes well with your 18 (effective 27 field of view).  Alternatively look around for a compact 35mm, like the 35 Summilux-M pre-asph (fov 52.5mm).

I also have the VE11-23mm zoom and 35 Summilux in TL mount.  Both bulky, but useful.

Edited July 7, 2020 by IkarusJohn

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[wjdrijfhout]

It’s interesting to see that firmware updates are considered as positive, while most are to fix bugs or implement functions that were not ready yet at launch. The TL2 as a third generation product was a pretty complete camera at launch already. I choose the TL2 over the CL because of its handling. For me it felt much better in the hand than the CL, the interface is fantastic, and and it has HDMI-out. 
The only thing I have on my wish-list for a firmware update is to enable OIS with the 90-280. While it says it is enabled, it does not work. But I guess I am one of the few who is willing to couple such a big lens on such a tiny camera...

[Boojay]

4 hours ago, miatadan said:

Today, July 6, 2020 just ordered Leica TL2 starter kit with 18mm from B&H Photo in the USA.

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2020/05/save-1695-with-leica-tl2-18mm-starter-bundle/

Bundle pricing in US dollars $2295.00

I live in Canada and even with duties + tax , it was less money the Leica TL2 body by itself. Only lenses I will use is the Leica lenses. 

Last Leica I had was the Leica X Vario, so hopefully the TL2 will have as good photos that I achieved with the X Vario.

Which lenses would you choose if limited to 2 lenses total if including the 18mm

thanks

Dan

 

If you don't want to go the adapted M - L route and manual focus, don't think you need the range emcompassed in the very good 18-56 zoom, 35 TL would be my choice just because, but you may want to consider the Sigma L Mount 45mm 2.8, nice size, no adaptor needed.  Lots more options about to arrive for L mount now from Sigma, enjoy your new camera.