jaapv Posted June 19, 2020 Share #21 Posted June 19, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 2 hours ago, nicci78 said: Of course you can still believe that TL2 is still on life support in Leica product management mind. But it seems to me that they already pull the plug at the end of 2018. Zero firmware update for the T/TL/TL2 against three for CL/SL is huge clue. I don’t see that as a clue. Leica often does updates for discontinued cameras. The two are not connected. Whether the TL line will be continued is no more than a question mark. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 19, 2020 Posted June 19, 2020 Hi jaapv, Take a look here TL2 discontinued ? Confirmed by Sigma ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
oldwino Posted June 19, 2020 Share #22 Posted June 19, 2020 26 minutes ago, jaapv said: Leica often does updates for discontinued cameras. They do? They often don’t do any updates at all, even for current cameras. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert blu Posted June 19, 2020 Share #23 Posted June 19, 2020 This is bad...I do not need from a pure photographic point of view a T/TL/TL2 but I feel is a camera which if I do not buy I'll regret in future not having bought! It' already happened for other cameras... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruskkyle Posted June 19, 2020 Share #24 Posted June 19, 2020 42 minutes ago, robert blu said: This is bad...I do not need from a pure photographic point of view a T/TL/TL2 but I feel is a camera which if I do not buy I'll regret in future not having bought! It' already happened for other cameras... I feel this way a bit too and have been in awe of the looks & user experience of the TL2 since I first picked one up in the Leica store in London. Still went for the CL though, and there in I imagine lies the fatal flaw of the T line... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share #25 Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, robert blu said: This is bad...I do not need from a pure photographic point of view a T/TL/TL2 but I feel is a camera which if I do not buy I'll regret in future not having bought! It' already happened for other cameras... Original T & TL were not that good. Look nice but AF performance is awful. MF is not that great, due to how resolution live view feed and no focus peaking. Then you can add the general slowness. Of course CL killed the TL line. It was created for this purpose. Just the integrated EVF, faster AF and traditional operation were enough for that. Edited June 20, 2020 by nicci78 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share #26 Posted June 20, 2020 Stefan Schulz latest interview, about SL2 video capabilities, is also a clue. He said that they learn a lot from TL tactile interface. And get the best of it, to integrate into their traditional UI. Hence the new fully tactile status page of SL2 and Q2. Then he also said that M10, SL2, CL and Q2 now share the same OS, the same menu system and the same 3 buttons ergonomics. Making it easier for firmware improvement. And to bring new functionalities across those cameras. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 20, 2020 Share #27 Posted June 20, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 2 hours ago, nicci78 said: Original T & TL were not that good. Look nice but AF performance is awful. MF is not that great, due to how resolution live view feed and no focus peaking. Then you can add the general slowness. Of course CL killed the TL line. It was created for this purpose. Just the integrated EVF, faster AF and traditional operation were enough for that. Speak for yourself. I recently bought a used TL and find it a very nice camera. I have not noticed any relevant slowness, but maybe I am slow too... 🙄 I don't judge cameras on reviews, I just judge how they work for me when taking photographs, and the TL does rather well. Probably the TL2 would do so as well. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted June 20, 2020 Share #28 Posted June 20, 2020 I bought the TL2, twice. Bought it when it came out, and sold it when the CL was launched because the latter had an EVF. Bought it again for a big holiday as a nifty backup to the CL. Sold it later because I still used the CL in preference because of the EVF. The speed, or other performance aspects, of the TL2 was not a big issue for me, and I take photos of people for preference, where speed of response is important. I also liked the interface and the looks. It has video capabilities the CL is lacking (including HDMI-out). There is no camera that doesn't have limitations - you just have to understand them and work with them. I do not keep cameras or lenses I don't use. In the case of the TL2 it was the single functionality issue of the EVF that was the problem - I prefer to use one, so next to the CL the TL2 fell into disuse and was sold. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michali Posted June 20, 2020 Share #29 Posted June 20, 2020 On 6/18/2020 at 4:04 PM, nicci78 said: Did Sigma, just confirmed that TL2 is not a current camera anymore ? We kind of already knew it, through the lack of firmware update since late 2018. Just look at the family pictures of current L-mount products : lots of lenses from Leica SL & TL ; Lumix S & Sigma DG 6 cameras : Lumix S1 & S1R & S1H ; Sigma fp ; Leica SL2 & CL But no TL2. It is quite logical, due to the lack of the much necessary firmware update to fully use L-mount lenses with TL2. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! What's missing from all of this is a native L mount telephoto in the 400mm range. Let's see how the upcoming Sigma L mount 100-400mm performs.... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 20, 2020 Share #30 Posted June 20, 2020 At least it has good numbers in the reviews - I'll be at the front of the line to try it out, even if my favourite subjects are nowithin my reach... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
T25UFO Posted June 20, 2020 Share #31 Posted June 20, 2020 I bought the original T as a take anywhere camera to replace my X1. The design was innovative and I never had any quality issues. Indeed, my 50mm APO became a stunning 75mm portrait lens! But the average T buyer would not spend another £6,000 on a 50mm APO lens (mine was bought for the Monochrom, not the T). I think someone once remarked it was the camera that Apple would have made - the marketing was similar and, with a touchscreen interface, it was aimed at the iPhone generation. But camera phones have improved considerably in the last five years, so smart phone users really have no need to carry this camera alongside their phone. And more serious photographers will prefer an integrated EVF over a smart touchscreen interface, hence the popularity of the CL. The T was an interesting concept, but the market has moved on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share #32 Posted June 20, 2020 4 hours ago, jaapv said: Speak for yourself. I recently bought a used TL and find it a very nice camera. I have not noticed any relevant slowness, but maybe I am slow too... 🙄 I don't judge cameras on reviews, I just judge how they work for me when taking photographs, and the TL does rather well. Probably the TL2 would do so as well. I owned it, and used it for 6 months. I got it at only 500€. But it was a mistake. Too clunky. Too slow. To be used alongside CL. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share #33 Posted June 20, 2020 The issue here is not to know if T TL or TL2 are nice camera or not. But the shameful truth that Leica stop support of TL2 after only one year of sale. Really only 1 ? It stopped exactly at the same date for T and TL cameras. T got 4.5 years of support ! They even stop the support just before releasing the much needed update to make the TL2, a full member of the L-Mount family. You should be vocal and ask for it ! Until hard proof of support. You should avoid to buy brand new TL2 at normal price. If future firmware support is really dropped. TL2 should be sold with a huge discount. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert blu Posted June 20, 2020 Share #34 Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) TL2 body iin Italy is now 2.000 EUR at Leica Stores. It seems me I saw anywhere (but I do not remember where) a offer for a bundle kit TL2+18mm for the same price. A pre-loved TL2 body is aorund 1.400 EUR with 1 year Leica warranty. By the way as a Leica X1owner I was very disappointed when after the lanuch of the X2 and other models in the series no more firmware upgrading was released for the x1 ! Edited June 20, 2020 by robert blu Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Dahl Posted June 20, 2020 Share #35 Posted June 20, 2020 5 hours ago, nicci78 said: The issue here is not to know if T TL or TL2 are nice camera or not. But the shameful truth that Leica stop support of TL2 after only one year of sale. Really only 1 ? It stopped exactly at the same date for T and TL cameras. T got 4.5 years of support ! They even stop the support just before releasing the much needed update to make the TL2, a full member of the L-Mount family. You should be vocal and ask for it ! Until hard proof of support. You should avoid to buy brand new TL2 at normal price. If future firmware support is really dropped. TL2 should be sold with a huge discount. I'm a big Leica fan. I bought TL2 BEFORE CL came on the market. That Leica does not support an expensive camera at all is not okay. My Leica MD does not require much support 😉 . But TL2 does. In the future, I will be very careful about buying new Leica, unless Leica gets better in that field. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 20, 2020 Share #36 Posted June 20, 2020 What support does the TL2 need? It works just fine... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted June 21, 2020 Author Share #37 Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) I think that we need TL2 owners to confirm, whether or not, when using it with new Sigma DG DN lenses. If all buttons on the lens and aperture ring do work or not ? Same thing with Lumix S lenses. Do lens buttons, aperture ring and push pull MF ring work or not ? Can you upgrade these lenses through TL2 ? Do you need to upgrade them with another L-Mount camera, before being useable with TL2 ? Can you fine tune the Panasonic MF ring in menu. As it supposed to be able to ? Do Panasonic OIS & Sigma OS work properly with TL2 ? Does AF work fast enough with TL2. After all those tests, we will be able to assess if TL2 does not need any firmware update at all. Because the latest 3 firmwares for CL and SL, addressed those issues. And bring them full L-Mount compatibility. Edited June 21, 2020 by nicci78 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 21, 2020 Share #38 Posted June 21, 2020 If those things should be needed, it is quite possible they are, the next thing we need to know whether it is possible to address them with firmware. The ;point being that Leica has always been willing to provide firmware updates for discontinued cameras. DMR, M8, M9, they all got updated after discontinuation. So the presence or absence of firmware updates tells us precisely nothing. We will have to wait and see whether a TL3 will appear in due course or not - only Leica knows. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuntingSand Posted June 22, 2020 Share #39 Posted June 22, 2020 Am 20.6.2020 um 07:25 schrieb nicci78: TL2 should be sold with a huge discount. That is already happening. See Leica Miami for example. Re all those requirements you list above, I am not holding my breath, nor am I losing sleep over those issues. My TL2 is a rather joyous piece of equipment as is. I leave the experimentation of Panasonic's MF finetuning-ring-in-menu thing to others. 😏 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share #40 Posted June 22, 2020 You are weird. If I owned a TL2, I would have been vocal about this situation. I would want it to be a full member of L-mount family, not a backseat member. Only fully compatible with Leica TL/SL lenses. Don't be too nice with Leica, otherwise you will be screwed. They have no excuse at all. Three to five years of regular firmware updates are expected nowadays. Only one is not okay. Far from it. T & TL got four ! (TL is a T, renamed for copyright issue with T mobile) TL2 destiny should not be linked with 2014 released T/TL cameras. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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