I think I have the M10M Bug

[jonoslack]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

On 4/26/2020 at 11:45 AM, jaapv said:

I wonder how that may be. The sensor of the M8 and M9 are identical, only the physical size differs.

Are you sure about that Jaap - if nothing else the cover glass is different, and that will certainly have an effect. The fact that the pixel pitch is the same doesn't mean everything else is.

All the best

Jono

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[jaapv]

True, Jono, but it is not just the pixel pitch: the same Kodak CCD, the microlenses are the same but extended/offset towards the edges and the IR filter is 0.5+laminate  changed to 0.8+coating. I don't think it could make a significant difference in acuity. Unfortunately the MTF curves of the sensors are not available.

[davidmknoble]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

True, Jono, but it is not just the pixel pitch: the same Kodak CCD, the microlenses are the same but extended/offset towards the edges and the IR filter is 0.5+laminate  changed to 0.8+coating. I don't think it could make a significant difference in acuity. Unfortunately the MTF curves of the sensors are not available.

@jaapv, I seem to remember reading something about that ages ago.  Do you have a reference where they are effectively the same, but with changed size and cover?  Just curious....

[jaapv]

That was over a decade and a Kodak meltdown ago, Jono   . I am quite sure about it, but I cannot produce the references any more. The pixel pitch was the hint, but the catalogue reference numbers  and manufacturer's documentation of the sensors the proof, as I recall. The microlens and IR filter information came from Leica back then in my  memory, rather proudly because they had been doubtful about a full-frame option before.

[fotografr]

On 4/26/2020 at 1:02 PM, setuporg said:

So far I find the M10M really biting out of camera.

Serious question: Is "really biting" a good thing or a bad thing?

Response to the OP: I went from the MM1 to the M10M and initially wasn't sure I'd made a good decision. The files do not have the grit or filmic qualities of the MM1 and for a while I really missed that. After a few months I've become completely smitten with the M10M files and with the camera itself. The thinner body, the superb shutter, the controls and menu make the camera physically much more pleasant to use. As for the files, they are exceptionally clean and sharp. At first, I had some difficulty getting good whites and deep blacks without going to a lot of effort. I believe this was largely due to the fact that processing softwares took a while to develop profiles for the M10M and incorporate them into upgrades. Now, that being done, a great many files that come out of my camera need very little adjustment.

The improved dynamic range, the file size, the cleanliness of the images and the detail that can be brought out of deep shadows (as has been demonstrated in post #2) are significant considerations in comparing the M10M to the MM1. I had three MM1 bodies and one M246, but after just three months with the M10M it has become my new all time favorite camera.

Edited May 1, 2020 by fotografr

[dkmoore]

2 hours ago, fotografr said:

Serious question: Is "really biting" a good thing or a bad thing?

Response to the OP: I went from the MM1 to the M10M and initially wasn't sure I'd made a good decision. The files do not have the grit or filmic qualities of the MM1 and for a while I really missed that. After a few months I've become completely smitten with the M10M files and with the camera itself. The thinner body, the superb shutter, the controls and menu make the camera physically much more pleasant to use. As for the files, they are exceptionally clean and sharp. At first, I had some difficulty getting good whites and deep blacks without going to a lot of effort. I believe this was largely due to the fact that processing softwares took a while to develop profiles for the M10M and incorporate them into upgrades. Now, that being done, a great many files that come out of my camera need very little adjustment.

The improved dynamic range, the file size, the cleanliness of the images and the detail that can be brought out of deep shadows (as has been demonstrated in post #2) are significant considerations in comparing the M10M to the MM1. I had three MM1 bodies and one M246, but after just three months with the M10M it has become my new all time favorite camera.

Completely agree. I think our brains tell us that change is bad sometimes so we want/expect all files to look like the MM1 or film but in reality, the M10M is the best rangefinder to date from Leica. 
 

I posted previously that I would not upgrade my M10P but I have completely reversed course and will update when the X comes out. 

[Likaleica]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

3 hours ago, fotografr said:

Serious question: Is "really biting" a good thing or a bad thing?

Response to the OP: I went from the MM1 to the M10M and initially wasn't sure I'd made a good decision. The files do not have the grit or filmic qualities of the MM1 and for a while I really missed that. After a few months I've become completely smitten with the M10M files and with the camera itself. The thinner body, the superb shutter, the controls and menu make the camera physically much more pleasant to use. As for the files, they are exceptionally clean and sharp. At first, I had some difficulty getting good whites and deep blacks without going to a lot of effort. I believe this was largely due to the fact that processing softwares took a while to develop profiles for the M10M and incorporate them into upgrades. Now, that being done, a great many files that come out of my camera need very little adjustment.

The improved dynamic range, the file size, the cleanliness of the images and the detail that can be brought out of deep shadows (as has been demonstrated in post #2) are significant considerations in comparing the M10M to the MM1. I had three MM1 bodies and one M246, but after just three months with the M10M it has become my new all time favorite camera.

+1

[Likaleica]

29 minutes ago, dkmoore said:

Completely agree. I think our brains tell us that change is bad sometimes so we want/expect all files to look like the MM1 or film but in reality, the M10M is the best rangefinder to date from Leica. 
 

I posted previously that I would not upgrade my M10P but I have completely reversed course and will update when the X comes out. 

+1

[Likaleica]

I still love that M1, though.

[otto.f]

2 hours ago, dkmoore said:

posted previously that I would not upgrade my M10P but I have completely reversed course and will update when the X comes out. 

Maybe Leica should follow APPLE  more with the iPhone SE and just stop at 24Mp for the customers who find that enough but want to profit from other aspects of tech development. 

[Herr Barnack]

On 4/26/2020 at 6:22 AM, MarkP said:

...,or I'm just being nostalgic about the MM1 and trying to justify NOT spending a shitload of money on leica coolaid...🙄

I think we can safely say there is way more to the M10 Monochrom than Leica Kool-Aid...

[dkmoore]

9 hours ago, otto.f said:

Maybe Leica should follow APPLE  more with the iPhone SE and just stop at 24Mp for the customers who find that enough but want to profit from other aspects of tech development. 

I think there is absolutely room for both. Especially if they are using the same sensor across multiple platforms (S & M) and keep the 24mp variants. I don't need more than 24 as I don't typically print larger than 17 X 22. That said, what the M10M brings to the table is more than just the 41MP and thinner body. Similar to how the MM1 was more than just an M9 without the Bayer array. 

[Foxtwo]

On 4/23/2020 at 6:25 PM, jplomley said:

...Now I love the M10, best digital M to date with nothing left to be desired IMHO. They absolutely nailed it on this latest generation. Loving the form and function of the M10 platform, I am now considering adding the M10M. Will I be disappointed in the image quality compared to the M9M. Do the M10M files have that same "bite" as the M9M, and "grit" at higher ISO? If anyone could share some RAW files, it would very much be appreciated. Might help alleviate any last bits of trepidation in taking the leap back to a monochrom only camera. Should I make the move, it shall be the Leitz Wetzlar edition...brings back fond memories of the 

So you already have an M10? Then it’s a no brainer, even if you don’t like the camera all that much, you’ll still  have an extra battery for your M10! Win-win.

I ordered an M10 Monochrome last week, should be here any day. Besides the stunning performance in low light, I already have an M10 and needed another battery for long trips. 😉

My only real reservation is that this current insanity is preventing me from traveling where I’d normally use the camera(s). Driving me nuts at the moment.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Foxtwo

[setuporg]

M10M is perfect for apocalyptic views of the world with the red filter while sheltering in place.

[Likaleica]

This is really going to sound like Leica Fan Boy stuff, but it would be nice if they could extend the a la carte program to internal preferences.  For example, a monochrom version of the M10D.  Admittedly, it would have a small pool of customers, but (knowing absolutely nothing about camera manufacture) it seems like they could swap a few parts to make it happen.  Having said that, I couldn't be happier than I am with my current armamentarium.  

[panoramer]

Am 24.4.2020 um 01:25 schrieb jplomley:

So here is the scoop....long time M user, over 20 years. Had a pair of M8's then M9's to which I added the M9M...skipped the M240 generation and have been shooting with an M10 for the past 2 years. Always regretted selling the M9M, and just the other evening was looking at some RAW files just loving the rich blacks and those beautiful mid-tones. Now I love the M10, best digital M to date with nothing left to be desired IMHO. They absolutely nailed it on this latest generation. Loving the form and function of the M10 platform, I am now considering adding the M10M. Will I be disappointed in the image quality compared to the M9M. Do the M10M files have that same "bite" as the M9M, and "grit" at higher ISO? If anyone could share some RAW files, it would very much be appreciated. Might help alleviate any last bits of trepidation in taking the leap back to a monochrom only camera. Should I make the move, it shall be the Leitz Wetzlar edition...brings back fond memories of the M4-P I used for over a decade

Go on www.flickr.com and search the user "Tomso M." This is my name on flickr. You can't see DNG´s, but the JPG´s in full size.