cl: did i choose wisely?

[jaapv]

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4 minutes ago, lct said:

Don't worry i've never used a histogram (what's that beast ) in all my life. Your EVF is WYSIWYG so it is easy to get the results you want if you have a bit of experience. You said 55 years, that should do it .

You can't know it if you haven't tried it. 55 Years? Pah - babies in diapers...

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[gteague]

lol! ok boomer!

[jaapv]

27 minutes ago, gteague said:

tks for the links. ken rockwell is sort of iffy though--he's like bipolar, sometimes he's great and other times you can tell he's pandering to generate clickbait. but he says:

"The best way to evaluate exposure is to look at the picture, not a histogram. Histograms are a way to measure exposure more objectively for those who can't see very well. Histograms don't replace your eyes and experience. "

and i don't think he means physically see well because i don't. i think he means those who can't previsualize and i've had over 55 years experience in visualization and pre-visualization and judging how the final image will look. you can't use the zone system if you haven't mastered this.

and if you can see the difference in the histograms between the 1-stop under and normal out in the sunlight when you're trying to capture an image that might change underneath you, you're a better man than i am, gunga din. there's no way i'd be able to see this tiny difference on the tiny cramped histogram on the cl.

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thus this could be why i don't find the histograms that useful--i suspect they'll only show me what i already know and take up a huge chunk of my time doing it. i realize that for those who can read them like a book there isn't much of a time penalty.

/guy

Eh? Don't you see the gap on the right (lost dynamic range) and bunched-up peak on the left (crushed shadows)?   It doesn't take much.

[lct]

Just now, jaapv said:

You can't know it if you haven't tried it. 

Totally useless for me sorry but i don't mind you're using those histo things of course .

[jaapv]

I will show in your photographs, but if you are happy I'm happy for you.

[gteague]

3 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Eh? Don't you see the gap on the right (lost dynamic range) and bunched-up peak on the left (crushed shadows)?   It doesn't take much.

it's one thing to see a crisp b&w image blown up on the screen. it's quite another to squint to see a low contrast grey square half the size of a postage stamp out in the bright west texas sun while you're hoping your scene doesn't change while you're evaluating it.   

/guy

[jaapv]

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Fortunately my EVF is a bit better than that. Visibility is not one of my problems.   Nor interpreting it.  

[lct]

2 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I will show in your photographs, but if you are happy I'm happy for you.

My pics look like i want them to thank you but I'm happy for you too.

[gteague]

3 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Fortunately my EVF is a bit better than that. Visibility is not one of my problems.   Nor interpreting it.  

screen washout is a huge problem for me with any and all cameras. it's the primary reason why i only go shoot during magick hour if at all possible. yes, the evf is much better in this regards, but i can only see 50-66% of the image through the evf and the histogram would take away some of that.

Edited April 26, 2020 by gteague

[jaapv]

3 minutes ago, gteague said:

screen washout is a huge problem for me with any and all cameras. it's the primary reason why i only go shoot during magick hour if at all possible. yes, the evf is much better in this regards, but i can only see 50-66% of the image through the evf and the histogram would take away some of that.

Well, that is understandable.

[gteague]

but cheer up guys! we could be discussing video exposure.

a few years ago i wanted to teach myself enough video so that i could shoot short 4k hdr clips on my photo walks and bring them back for display on my 4k hdr tv. i got the panasonic gh5 which has many advanced video features and i came across a gent from the netherlands creating luts for several brands. paul leeming, and i can't recommend him highly enough because he interacts nearly one-on-one on his facebook page providing support for using them.

btw, i'm leaving out my earliest foray which involved the blackmagic pocket cinema camera and davinci resolve. i thought that camera would help me learn video, but it was a nightmare to actually use. as was resolve.

so i bought final cut pro and immediately realized that i hate video editors more than i do photo editors. it's tiny little grey characters on a grey background and nearly all the stuff you need is unintuitive, untransparent, and not in the menu system. nor do all the tiny little icons have tool tips when you hover. i can't do the simplest things in there such as cut and splice. but i can apply luts because of paul leeming and his helpful facebook page.

but here's the caveat, at least for his luts although i think it's pretty universal. of course you have to use vlog and there are a dozen settings you need to address in the camera first. then, and i'm going to paraphrase freely here, you do ettr which means 'expose to the right' which seemingly means to overexpose by about 3 stops. the way to do this is to set your zebras to 75 or 95% and then crank the compensation until the highlights blink. i guess if you think about it, it's not that much more complicated than the zone system considering you had to adjust both on the shooting side and the developing side and it was hard to implement using roll film because you can't really develop single images on the roll differently.

given all that and how much i hate final cut pro and all video editors, needless to say my tv is starved for video clips. and if i was guessing, i'd say the video folks have championed all these tools like histograms and waveforms and zebras because it's a nightmare to expose for video. the one thing they did do right though was the peaking and that's because they refuse to use autofocus because it would put all those focus pullers out of work and they obviously have a good union.   

Edited April 26, 2020 by gteague

[pebbles]

I have now become firmly involved and satisfied with the CL. It fits the hand well, is an easy fit in the pocket, and takes me back to real Leica photography. These are the cameras in the photo I now have and use. Between these I have had an R4SMod2, a Digilux 2, an M6, an M8, an M9, and an M10. None of these really satisfed me. The M6 almost had me but the CL is now my usual camera.

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Edited May 14, 2020 by pebbles

[edstock]

I purchased a 50 f2.5 shortly after they came out. I used it rather extensively and have always been satisfied with the results. I just placed an order for a CL with the 2.8 lens. In the digital world of cameras it is always newer, larger. It is called planed obsolescent. This business model was adapted from the Japanese.