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cl: did i choose wisely?


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i've been considering getting an /m/ lens and have been watching ebay and the online photo sites for a reasonable deal. i knew i was going to have to budget $425 right up front for the leica m-adapter so i didn't have too much leeway in the cost of the lens as i needed to get under $2500 for the lens and adapter.

i  found the 50/2.4 summarit new for $1699 and a 50/2 summicron keh exc- condition for $1899. the f2.4 is quite a bit smaller and lighter, but seems to have comparable optics according to the reviews i consulted. i like the square hood, but it's a screw-on and i don't like the idea of having a thread cover to lose. the f2 is the version with a 39mm filter and the collapsing lens hood which i like the idea of, but some reviewers didn't care for it. i found the f2 cheaper on ebay, but i found the sellers iffy and i trust keh.

amazon is running at least 1-2 weeks behind on shipping, so i have time to change my mind in the next week or so. i'll also be able to use this lens and adapter on my s1 as a 50mm focal length, right? on the cl i already have the 23/2 (35mm equiv) and a 50/2 which  is equiv 75mm on apc will make a nice pairing as 75mm is about the limit without ois.

so do you think i made the right choice? i can always get the summarit at that price, but there was only the one summicron at that price.

tks, /guy

Edited by gteague
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The summicron with the built-in hood is a bit flare prone, the summicron iv, with the separate hood, is less flare prone. That is my experience with shots of identical situations. I don’t know the summarit, but it seems to have a more effective hood. I don’t know whether collapsible hoods can ever be more effective than the more embracing, separate hoods and 50’s are more flare prone than many other angles. 
 

http://joerivanderkloet.com/leica-summarit-m-502-4-review/

Edited by otto.f
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The leather case that comes with the Summarit has a spot to stow the thread protector. Personally I really like the hood/cap design of the Summarit 2.4s. I just picked up a 2.4/50mm from this forum and am loving it, however I have not owned a 50 Summicron. 
 

I also have a 2.5/35mm Summarit and it is more compact (uses E39 filters) but I don’t like how the hood flares out, and the plastic cap falls off all the time. 

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tks for the tips and info and opinions. amazon has marked the summicron 'shipped' which means i can't easily change right now. but both amazon and keh have generous return policies, so it looks like i'll be trying the summicron first. i have to admit that the extra 1/2 stop isn't important and the smaller size and weight and the lens hood on the summarit are pluses in its column. and i indeed did read about the flare issue but it didn't factor into the decision because a) i can work with flare and use it at times and, b) i try to shoot to avoid the sun and take advantage of magick hour.

/guy

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14 hours ago, gteague said:

i  found the 50/2.4 summarit new for $1699 and a 50/2 summicron keh exc- condition for $1899. 

Unless I could see and try the used lens, I would prefer to purchase new. You could order a new Summicron-M 50mm black (L11826) from Europe and not have to pay tax (VAT), and it could be roughly the same price as your used $1900 lens where I assume you will be over $2,000 including online sales tax. For example, a new Summicron-M 1:2.0/50mm (black) lists for around €1,900 (roughly US$2,100 today) including free shipping from Leica Camera Austria (http://www.leicashop.com/brandnew_en/m-system/objektive/standard/leica-summicron-m-1-2-0-50mm-black.html). Your resale value should be much greater for the Summicron vs the Summarit lens, should you ever choose to part with it.

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12 hours ago, otto.f said:

The summicron with the built-in hood is a bit flare prone, the summicron iv, with the separate hood, is less flare prone. That is my experience with shots of identical situations. I don’t know the summarit, but it seems to have a more effective hood. I don’t know whether collapsible hoods can ever be more effective than the more embracing, separate hoods and 50’s are more flare prone than many other angles. 
 

http://joerivanderkloet.com/leica-summarit-m-502-4-review/

good review. it seems that he favored the summarit mostly because of size and weight and concludes:

"The 50 Cron is ‘only’ 450 Euros more expensive, 50 grams heavier and offers 10 centimeters more of close up focusing. The Cron also delivers a more pleasing picture that bears the legendary ‘Leica look’ – a high microcontrast and unique transition ..."

he also linked to a summicron review in which he said: 

"
So the 50 Summicron was a compromise, but it turned out to be the best lens I ever had. Why? Because the rendering is very Leica like: a bit classical, not too clinical, with smooth bokeh and a lot of micro contrast. Next, it is sharp, wide open and is almost free from distortion. Most important: it is very light, very small and has the perfect focus throw. And it even has a built in hood. What else do you want?"

/guy

Edited by gteague
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49 minutes ago, Theory033 said:

Unless I could see and try the used lens, I would prefer to purchase new. You could order a new Summicron-M 50mm black (L11826) from Europe and not have to pay tax (VAT), and it could be roughly the same price as your used $1900 lens where I assume you will be over $2,000 including online sales tax. For example, a new Summicron-M 1:2.0/50mm (black) lists for around €1,900 (roughly US$2,100 today) including free shipping from Leica Camera Austria (http://www.leicashop.com/brandnew_en/m-system/objektive/standard/leica-summicron-m-1-2-0-50mm-black.html). Your resale value should be much greater for the Summicron vs the Summarit lens, should you ever choose to part with it.

i checked that link and indeed it's just under $2100 usd shipped. about the cheapest new price i've found is $2200-2400 and that would include local sales tax of about 8.25% and usually doesn't include shipping.

if i like the 'cron but have to return the keh used one for some reason i will indeed consider buying direct. i have no idea how global shipping is faring in the time of covid19 though. amazon's 1-day and 2-day shipping went to 2-4 weeks in a heartbeat and even items on their priority list take over a week.

/guy

Edited by gteague
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Beware that the 50/2.5 (no experience with 50/2.4) can produce some nasty flare in special circumstances, typically at 10:00 when the sun is outside the frame and no hood can do anything against that. Otherwise i find my 50/2.5 optically superior to both my 50/2 v4 and 50/2 v5 but i often need f/2 and i don't like the hood of the 50/2.5 so i end up using preferably the 50/2 v5 on my M cameras and the 50/2 v4 or the 50/2.5 on my digital CL due to their smaller size. FWIW.

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ok, the lens just arrived and i can answer my own question albeit without the benefit of having the summarit f2.4 to compare. although keh described this lens as exc -, a tag inside the packaging and the invoice said it was ln - and indeed, it's a shiny as it came off the production line without the least sign of wear or use. no dust on any elements that i can see. aperture ring clicks solidly into the stops and the focus ring is as silky smooth as any lens i've ever used. i've never had a  lens with a telescoping hood, but this one has just enough resistance to stay put, is deployed with the nudge of a finger, and isn't too long.

no paperwork, but came in a leather case which might or might not be the one for the lens. caps of course and it needs no hood. back in the 80s i owned an m4p and an m3, but i could only afford the cheapest versions of the 35mm and 90mm lenses and they were nearly worn out by the time i got them. no comparison with this one.

have to wait until friday for my leica m-adapter and the filter i ordered. but when i got the cl i got a haoge m-to-l mount and i should be able to try out the lens but without whatever benefits the leica adapter gives it. which reminded me, i just looked at the mount and i don't see anything that looks like the 6-bit code on it. i thought this version of the lens had that coding--am i missing something? if the lens doesn't have it, did i waste my money on the leica adapter which is supposed to allow the camera to read it?

/guy

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I think you cant go wrong with either lens (and yes, I have used and owned both).

With the Summicron you gain half stop and its a classic lens. If I were you I would delete second thoughts and happily use the lens for a long time.

And I would recommend the same if you had ordered the Summarit. Both are great lenses.

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ok. just got off the phone with keh. those are the nicest people in the universe. the guy wasn't that knowledgeable on the subject, but he messaged some techs and i found more info with google while we were talking.  the question about whether the description specified the coding and that's a grey area because this used lens was underneath an amazon listing for a lens which did say it was coded. keh only said case and caps and didn't specify coding, but i had no way of knowing whether they always specified or not.

so what me and the keh guy determined was that this v4 or v5 lens (folding hood) didn't necessarily have the coding from the factory, but could be updated. and i've seen at least a dozen in my researches which did  have the coding, so i'm still not clear whether some were factory coded or the sellers i saw had the coding done themselves.

but for the cl it seems that the only benefit is exif data. and i think i can do without that. but now i have the leica $425 adapter coming and is it going to be way overkill since there's no code for it to read? is the only other useful function that it allows easier manual focusing? or can it even do that without coding?

i might decide to keep it just in case i get another 'm' lens though. and i'm sure it's better built than the cheap haoge i have.

tks for the help! this lens is in such good shape i can't see sending it back because of the coding.

/guy

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Guy, you can get it coded so that the camera firmware can communicate with the lens more intelligently.  I had mine coded by Leica several years ago. It saves you having to tell the body every time you fit an uncoded lens and you can identify pictures taken with a coded lens.

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that's good news to hear i can have it done if i want to. we'll see what i think of the operation on the cl and the image quality and how much it bugs me to not have exif.

i tried mounting it on the haoge adapter and it was too tight for me to feel comfortable, so i'll wait until friday when the leica adapter comes in to try things out. i also like to have a filter in place before i start using a lens--force of habit more than anything i guess, but i've never had any damage to a front element although i've dinged filters.

/guy

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Using the original Leica M adapter on the CL is of advantage, as it will allow viewfinder magnification by one of the top control wheels. A third-party adapter will only allow magnification by the arrow buttons which ia a bit of an ergonomic hassle. I would not bother with coding the lens, it is of no benefit. The camera will sense that the adapter is mounted and present you with a list of lenses to choose from.

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Just now, jaapv said:

Using the original Leica M adapter on the CL is of advantage, as it will allow viewfinder magnification by one of the top control wheels. A third-party adapter will only allow magnification by the arrow buttons which ia a bit of an ergonomic hassle. I would not bother with coding the lens, it is of no benefit.

thanks! i'd forgotten the up arrow hassle as i'm left-eyed and my right eye is right over those buttons. and, who knows, if i like this /m/ lens i might end up with another /m/ lens which has the coding somewhere along the way. 

very disappointed the haoge adapter didn't work out but i'm not about to damage the lens mount trying to bayonet it in there. would have been nice to be able to test out the image quality while waiting for the leica adapter, but hopefully it'll come friday.

/guy

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31 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Coding is useful for M cameras, not for SL/CL/TL.

No idea about TL or SL but 6-bit coding corrects for distortion on the CL. May be useful or not depending on one's needs or tastes. At least with Leica M lenses as the cure can be worse than the disease with non-Leica M lenses.

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