nameBrandon Posted February 8, 2020 Share #1 Posted February 8, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) See far right-hand side, this is stopped down slightly.. M10 EXIF guesstimate is f/2.4 but I'm thinking probably f/2. I noticed the bit of onion ring there which I expect given the aspherical element, but this shape really threw me. I've only had the lens for a short while and it seems to be working very well, just want to have some more seasoned eyes see what they think and make sure this is normal. For what it's worth, I believe these were string / Christmas type lights in the background. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306251-50-summilux-m-asph-oof-bokeh-balls-is-this-normal/?do=findComment&comment=3908893'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 Hi nameBrandon, Take a look here 50 Summilux-M ASPH - OOF / Bokeh Balls - Is this normal?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Stealth3kpl Posted February 8, 2020 Share #2 Posted February 8, 2020 It looks like the lens is stopped down a bit. This is normal. Wide open, I think it will be circular. Pete 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted February 8, 2020 Share #3 Posted February 8, 2020 It’s normal in that situation. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted February 8, 2020 Share #4 Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) The "bokeh balls" will take the same shape as the aperture blades make inside your lens at the selected aperture. Just take a look in the front of your lens and see how the aperture blades make a more or less round circle (iris diaphragm) as you turn the aperture ring. This is one of the tings I like better with the old pre-ASPH Summilux. That lens has a much rounder diaphragm shape at at apertures. But, as already mentioned, to avoid these jagged bokeh balls, just remember to shoot fully open. Edited February 8, 2020 by evikne 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted February 8, 2020 Share #5 Posted February 8, 2020 Wonderfull! It would have been not normal if the balls would have been oval. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 8, 2020 Share #6 Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) Typical bokeh balls from the Summilux-M 50/1.4 asph at f/1.4, f/2 and f/2.8: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited February 8, 2020 by lct 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306251-50-summilux-m-asph-oof-bokeh-balls-is-this-normal/?do=findComment&comment=3908942'>More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted February 8, 2020 Share #7 Posted February 8, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes, those "Ninja Stars" made me get rid of the Summilux-M 50 asph. otherwise one of the best lens in the world (all round). Ruined photos was not acceptable for me 😏 since decades long amateur of contre-jour or some kind of lights in the frame. The aperture shape becomes "rounder" from about f/5.6 , when I planned "round balls", I used the Lux asph. wide open or f/5.6, that was kind of pity. The 50mm Noctilux 1.0 and the Summilux-M 75mm have same kind of "Ninja Stars" when as well "closed down a bit". I know that the pre-asph. was better in this respect, so I rebought the pre-asph Summilux (well three of them to be exact 🙃 ) Aperture shapes are rounder, as seen here closed down to have "round blops" in place of "Ninja Stats" of the asph. Brandon, aperture shapes to be compared with your asph. at same aperture Summilux pre-asph. F/2, F/2.8 , F/4 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 4 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306251-50-summilux-m-asph-oof-bokeh-balls-is-this-normal/?do=findComment&comment=3908969'>More sharing options...
lct Posted February 8, 2020 Share #8 Posted February 8, 2020 Great lens indeed but parroting reviewers extolling its "creamy bokeh" forgot to use it at f/2.8 where its OoF rendition is somewhat less smooth than that of lenses like 50/1.4 pre-asph or 50/2 apo. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306251-50-summilux-m-asph-oof-bokeh-balls-is-this-normal/?do=findComment&comment=3908988'>More sharing options...
evikne Posted February 8, 2020 Share #9 Posted February 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, lct said: Great lens indeed but parroting reviewers extolling its "creamy bokeh" forgot to use it at f/2.8 where its OoF rendition is somewhat less smooth than that of lenses like 50/1.4 pre-asph or 50/2 apo. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I don't think comparing a Summilux and a Summicron this way gives a fair picture. Because the APO Summicron is fully open at f/2.0 and is only stopped down 1 stop here, while the Summilux is stopped down 2 stops. So the aperture of a Summicron at f/2.8 is more like a Summilux at f/2.0. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 8, 2020 Share #10 Posted February 8, 2020 Just facts. The Summilux 50/1.4 pre-asph shows the same kind of difference. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nameBrandon Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share #11 Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) Thanks all! Glad to see I'm not crazy and that the lens is working as intended... I'll have to look at some pre-asph 50 Summilux image samples for general sharpness, contrast, oof rendering.. I love everything else about this 50 Lux would hate to lose all of that over some ninja stars.. 😂 Perhaps it's just easier to keep the 50 Summilux and then check into some alternatives for low-light work where this kind of scenario happens, 50 C Sonnar 1.5 comes to mind. Side note - I'm looking at a few lenses in the 35mm range.. Summilux-M FLE / Pre-FLE / Summicron ASPH (latest). Am I going to run into ninja stars similar to above with any of those lenses? Edited February 9, 2020 by nameBrandon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted February 9, 2020 Share #12 Posted February 9, 2020 If you really want round balls you could think of a Summitar 2.0/50 from before 1950. Only problem is that many of these have developed fungus in the 70+ years that they exist, the coating was not as good as today. Some early 4.0/90mm’s also have many aperture blades, true jewels of construction. I never understood why Leica abandoned these apertures in favor of only a few blades that also run less smooth. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted February 9, 2020 Share #13 Posted February 9, 2020 35 minutes ago, nameBrandon said: Side note - I'm looking at a few lenses in the 35mm range.. Summilux-M FLE / Pre-FLE / Summicron ASPH (latest). Am I going to run into ninja stars similar to above with any of those lenses? The newest 35mm Summicron ASPH from 2016 has an improved design with 11 aperture blades, vs. 8 in the previous model. More aperture blades usually means a rounder diaphragm, but the shape of the aperture blades is probably just as important. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nameBrandon Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share #14 Posted February 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, evikne said: The newest 35mm Summicron ASPH from 2016 has an improved design with 11 aperture blades, vs. 8 in the previous model. More aperture blades usually means a rounder diaphragm, but the shape of the aperture blades is probably just as important. Thanks! So this is what people are referring to as the 35mm Summicron-M ASPH (v2) (or 11673) as opposed to (v1 or 11879) which sounds like had only 8 blade? Looks like the site wiki is out of date with respect to the 35 Summicron-M.. Will see if just anyone can update the wiki, maybe I can try and start the new page. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted February 9, 2020 Share #15 Posted February 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, nameBrandon said: Thanks! So this is what people are referring to as the 35mm Summicron-M ASPH (v2) (or 11673) as opposed to (v1 or 11879) which sounds like had only 8 blade? Looks like the site wiki is out of date with respect to the 35 Summicron-M.. Will see if just anyone can update the wiki, maybe I can try and start the new page. Yes, 11673 is the newest model. And yes, the Leica Wiki unfortunately contains several errors and shortcomings. For example is the 50mm Summilux pre-ASPH v. III of course designed by Walter Mandler, not Peter Karbe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 9, 2020 Share #16 Posted February 9, 2020 4 hours ago, evikne said: For example is the 50mm Summilux pre-ASPH v. III of course designed by Walter Mandler The Summilux-M 50/1.4 v3 (11868) was launched in 1994 whilst W. Mandler retired in the eighties if memory serves. No idea why he is mentioned as designer by serious sources then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted February 9, 2020 Share #17 Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, lct said: The Summilux-M 50/1.4 v3 (11868) was launched in 1994 whilst W. Mandler retired in the eighties if memory serves. No idea why he is mentioned as designer by serious sources then. Optically this lens had the same design from 1961 to 2004. In the ordinary Wikipedia this is only referred to as the "second version", and no third version is mentioned at all. Since 1992 the lens got some exterior changes, which are often referred to as the "third version". I agree it's doubtful that Dr. Mandler himself made these last changes after his retirement. If Karbe worked for Leica at that time, maybe he had something to do with it, but I have never heard anything about that. He is only known for the ASPH version from 2004. Edited February 9, 2020 by evikne Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 9, 2020 Share #18 Posted February 9, 2020 I did not say that Mr Karbe was involved in the design of the 50/1.4 v3, simply that W. Mandler was retired then. As for being the same design, here's what Leica wrote to me about this lens: Quote The Summilux-M 50/1.4 (11868) was launched approx. 1994 on photokina in Cologne. The first deliveries have been made beginning of 1995. This lens in question was the third generation of this SUMMILUX lens and was totally redesigned, optical and mechanical. E.g. The close-up focus was now 70 cm. and it had an telescopic lens hood. The lens was discontinued approx. 2004. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted February 9, 2020 Share #19 Posted February 9, 2020 There is so much conflicting information out there on the web, but I assume the information you received directly from Leica is correct. I would love to know who actually did the last redesign in 1994. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 9, 2020 Share #20 Posted February 9, 2020 No idea sorry but you may wish to ask our colleague luigi bertolotti who knows a lot about this lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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