Offered a near mint DMR - do I or don't I?

[james.liam]

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Time comes when you have to relegate the past to its rightful place of treasured memories, instead of throwing good money at it. 

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[wlaidlaw]

5 hours ago, james.liam said:

Time comes when you have to relegate the past to its rightful place of treasured memories, instead of throwing good money at it. 

Not if like me you are a Leica collector. There is no logic for example on spending what I suspect will be quite a lot (it needs a replacement or rewound motor), on resurrecting a 1970's Super 8 camera (a Leicina Special), which will almost certainly take worse movies than my phone is capable of and cost a fortune to run with Ektachrome 100D  at over £50 for 50 feet but I am really looking forward to getting it back all repaired. The Leicina with its Optivaron lens is a beautifully made piece of equipment that it would sad to allow to remain dead. Same thing with my Leica 250FF Reporter - about as impractical as it gets, what with developing 10 metres of film. 

Wilson

[Stuart Richardson]

8 hours ago, dkCambridgeshire said:

But have you ever used a DMR and experienced its charisma? 

dunk

Yes, I mentioned it above. I used it for several years. It was a good digital camera for 2005, but that was a long time ago. Digital ages differently than film. I am not saying one cannot use it or enjoy it, or that it is incapable of good results, I just think that for people in 2020, there are better options if the goal is photography rather than mainly collecting. Here it seems to be both, so it is harder to unpack.

[Guest]

To get back to the origin of this subject,to buy or not to buy.
My advice would be to buy ,but do the best deal possible but it’s not always about the money. I had always wanted a 75mm Summilux but wanted one in mint condition.I was offered one just before Christmas and finished up after 1 hour of humming and aring,taking it home from my local Leica shop.

The DMR would make a nice addition to your collection and you would enjoy using it. Lots of valid reasons not to buy but 2 very good reasons to buy.

Enjoy the DMR

Edited January 25, 2020 by Guest

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, BrianP said:

 

 

Edited January 25, 2020 by Guest

[wlaidlaw]

The DMR for sale by Meister Camera appears to have something going on at the lower border of the sensor (see arrows on photo below). I  have asked Meister to comment on this, as it may just be a photographic artefact. 

Wilson

 

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[pgk]

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2 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

The DMR for sale by Meister Camera appears to have something going on at the lower border of the sensor (see arrows on photo below). I  have asked Meister to comment on this, as it may just be a photographic artefact. 

Wilson

It may be 'normal' in the case of the DMR (I doubt its a photographic artefact) but what might be of interest to anyone interested in early digital cameras is the history of the Fuji S2Pro from 2002 (£1800 initially when new). Firstly some cameras had a defective CCD, and secondly, it appears that many cameras seem to have finally suffered delimitation of their CCDs as a result of heating/cooling cycles - the S2Pro used a lot of power. So few still appear to be in working order and spares, as far as I can find out, are non-existent. I'm not suggesting that the DMR, has similar problems but more that digital cameras, and especially earlier ones, appear to often have a finite life. I've thought that a DMR would be fun to own and use but the price now needs to reflect the fact that although they are built by Leica, they are now old digital sensors. Having thought about it since I last posted, I personally think the a DMR unit should really be worth around the £500 mark, but the Leica name will increase this of course. Still, even at double this they are expensive IMO given the eventual likelihood of terminal failure.

[robert_parker]

Hi Wilson

 

Hi Wilson

just to say, if it’s any help to you, that I’ve had dealings with the gentleman selling the DMR in the south-west of England and found him to be perfectly sound and good to deal with.

as far as I can see from the advert that you are referring to the correct focusing screen is provided.

[wlaidlaw]

13 minutes ago, robert_parker said:

Hi Wilson

 

Hi Wilson

just to say, if it’s any help to you, that I’ve had dealings with the gentleman selling the DMR in the south-west of England and found him to be perfectly sound and good to deal with.

as far as I can see from the advert that you are referring to the correct focusing screen is provided.

Hi Robert I have bought quite a bit from him also over the years. However the pricing differential compared to the DMR offered by Meister is huge. The Meister one is about half the price of the UK one and has some additional items. 

Wilson

PS The Meister one is sold. 

 

Edited January 25, 2020 by wlaidlaw

[bserzelius]

Hi Wilson

In 2012, my well beloved  DMR suddenly and in the middle of its active life broke down and fell in a coma. I sent it in for repair – happened to be in the US at that moment –, LEICA US sent it to Germany, they checked it and saw it was unrepairable for the lack of spare parts and sent it back to the US – where it arrived when I was back in Switzerland... In the end it was the most expensive and most frustrating LEICA service experience I ever had. BUT: The pictures I took with this tool are still among the best I ever got. They have wonderful colour and a kind of brilliance that makes them outstanding (only relative to the rest of my production of course). Would I buy one again? Well, only if my pockets were VERY deep. If you're willing to take the risk, you'll have fun.

Urs

[james.liam]

On 1/25/2020 at 3:06 AM, wlaidlaw said:

Not if like me you are a Leica collector. There is no logic for example on spending what I suspect will be quite a lot (it needs a replacement or rewound motor), on resurrecting a 1970's Super 8 camera (a Leicina Special), which will almost certainly take worse movies than my phone is capable of and cost a fortune to run with Ektachrome 100D  at over £50 for 50 feet but I am really looking forward to getting it back all repaired. The Leicina with its Optivaron lens is a beautifully made piece of equipment that it would sad to allow to remain dead. Same thing with my Leica 250FF Reporter - about as impractical as it gets, what with developing 10 metres of film. 

Wilson

Collecting electronic cameras?  

There are cheaper paperweights out there. Granted, not as good to look at.

Edited January 29, 2020 by james.liam

[pgk]

11 hours ago, james.liam said:

Collecting electronic cameras?  

There are cheaper paperweights out there. Granted, not as good to look at.

I have too many cameras and I would not say that I am a collector. What is the difference between owning a camera that doesn't work and owning one that you don't use I wonder? I should sell off some of the cameras I really am unlikely to use within a few years but somehow it never happens (am I ever going to use my 12" x 16" plate camera? Its as unlikely as using a dead digital camera in all honesty). I've had a few early electronic cameras and whilst most 'worked' the basic problem seems to become batteries, which gradually lose their ability to hold a charge and difficult, or at least 'awkward', to replace/refurbish. I had a Kodak DCS for a while - great images - and when I needed a new battery there were a number of new, aftermarket ones available cheaply enough. I also spoke to a specialist battery firm here in the UK who could supply new ones too - although they more or less admitted that their higher cost batteries were due to having to buy the cheaper ones and thoroughly test them and discarding poor ones!

[wlaidlaw]

I am cooling on the idea of a DMR, especially as I will probably be buying an M10-R later this year, where I doubt that there may be much change, if anything, left over from £7,000. I have decided I will sell my M240 and M9 after I get the M10-R plus two other digital cameras I rarely use now, an Olympus EP-5, with a couple of lenses (replaced with a CL) and a Leica C112. I tried to get my wife to take over the C112 when her ancient V-Lux 20 died last year but she just could not get on with the rather odd ergonomics and has bought a tiny Sony HX80. The C112 performance is also nothing to write home about. Interestingly I see the M10-P is now out of stock at Leica UK, which makes me wonder if the M10-R may be out sooner than the expected April-May. 

On Classic cameras I would like to get one of Leica's ugly ducklings, an M5, preferably a  black 50 Jarhe version for my collection and a MOOLY-C to use with my wartime IIIc stepper, neither of which are cheap for really nice quality, fully working examples. 

[Keith (M)]

1 hour ago, wlaidlaw said:

 The C112 performance is also nothing to write home about. 

There are those amongst us who would disagree!

[dritz]

Um, a Leica S2?  About the same price and substantially better camera in every way. Yes, there is the issue of needing lenses, but may just a 35 and 70 would be enough.

[TomB_tx]

On 1/30/2020 at 4:00 AM, wlaidlaw said:

On Classic cameras I would like to get one of Leica's ugly ducklings, an M5, preferably a  black 50 Jarhe version for my collection and a MOOLY-C to use with my wartime IIIc stepper, neither of which are cheap for really nice quality, fully working examples. 

Go for the M5! After being curious for decades I picked up a black 50 Jarhe with a few issues that DAG fixed. It’s a fantastic camera to use. Later I also found a black 50 Jarhe SL2, which also made a trip to DAG. I had use M4 and LeicaflexSL since 1969, and finally realized both M5 & SL2 were terrific upgrades. Now watching out for a 50 Jarhe CL to match!

[wlaidlaw]

It was an offer from Peter Walnes that got me started down this route. He has subsequently reduced the price to £1899. There are a number of people who do battery rebuilds. In comparison to what Meister sold one recently with boxes and case, this still looks rather expensive. 

Wilson

[robert_parker]

I think you do need to remember it's a one of a kind camera that is the only native digital solution for the R line, together with being the only camera assembly to my knowledge where you can switch from digital to film and vice versa; also the 10 bit colour rendition and image quality are exceptional, even today.

There are quite a few cameras around nowadays that might be hard to repair in the future but rather as with your projector, where you've just had the motor re-wound, who knows what improvements / fixes are just around the corner... 😉

...also if it ain't broke… 😎

Edited January 31, 2020 by robert_parker

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[ChicagoMatthew]

On 1/30/2020 at 4:00 AM, wlaidlaw said:

I am cooling on the idea of a DMR, especially as I will probably be buying an M10-R later this year, where I doubt that there may be much change, if anything, left over from £7,000. I have decided I will sell my M240 and M9 after I get the M10-R plus two other digital cameras I rarely use now, an Olympus EP-5, with a couple of lenses (replaced with a CL) and a Leica C112. I tried to get my wife to take over the C112 when her ancient V-Lux 20 died last year but she just could not get on with the rather odd ergonomics and has bought a tiny Sony HX80. The C112 performance is also nothing to write home about. Interestingly I see the M10-P is now out of stock at Leica UK, which makes me wonder if the M10-R may be out sooner than the expected April-May. 

On Classic cameras I would like to get one of Leica's ugly ducklings, an M5, preferably a  black 50 Jarhe version for my collection and a MOOLY-C to use with my wartime IIIc stepper, neither of which are cheap for really nice quality, fully working examples. 

After reading how you’re a camera collector and willing to drop 2k on an interesting part of Leica lore, I’m surprised to read now you’re going to sell the fabled M9 just to get another digital Leica, one that will instantly start to lose its value.... and eventually, become obsolete in the same way the DMR is. 

[M9reno]

3 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

It was an offer from Peter Walnes that got me started down this route. He has subsequently reduced the price to £1899. There are a number of people who do battery rebuilds. In comparison to what Meister sold one recently with boxes and case, this still looks rather expensive. 

Wilson

He’s probably reading this. Let’s keep writing and he will come down further.