wlaidlaw Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share #21 Posted January 23, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 5 minutes ago, Bobitybob said: Another consideration is that if it doesn’t come with a camera you will need to find a dedicated focusing screen (if you don’t have the box and/or the canvas carry case) with the appropriate frame lines as the normal one is made for use with 35mm film and is too ’large’ for the APSC sensor. Did the DMR come when new with an APS frame screen for the R8/9? Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 Hi wlaidlaw, Take a look here Offered a near mint DMR - do I or don't I?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wattsy Posted January 23, 2020 Share #22 Posted January 23, 2020 I can't say I see the point in buying an old DMR if you have 27 other cameras to enjoy, including other digitals. A milestone camera (I guess a DMR can be called a camera) for sure, wonderful colour, etc. but surely there is only so much time in the world to enjoy what you already have? I guess I just don't understand what motivates some people. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share #23 Posted January 23, 2020 47 minutes ago, wattsy said: I can't say I see the point in buying an old DMR if you have 27 other cameras to enjoy, including other digitals. A milestone camera (I guess a DMR can be called a camera) for sure, wonderful colour, etc. but surely there is only so much time in the world to enjoy what you already have? I guess I just don't understand what motivates some people. it is the collector bug/GAS Ian. Wilson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 23, 2020 Share #24 Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, wlaidlaw said: it is the collector bug/GAS Ian. Wilson Fair enough. The DMR has always struck me as an ingenious and fine product worthy of the Leica name but I think I'd rather use the R9 (if I had one) with film. Edited January 23, 2020 by wattsy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted January 23, 2020 Share #25 Posted January 23, 2020 3 hours ago, wlaidlaw said: I also have the same dilemma if I go for a DMR. Unboxed from a seller I trust and know I can return the DMR if it is DOA. This is against a slightly cheaper boxed and papers DMR but from an Italian seller I don't know. He will accept returns but it would all be a bit of a heave getting the item back to Italy. Wilson I can vouch for the Italian seller, at least so far as I've bought from them and been very pleased in the past. But as you say, any return would be a pain. Looking at sold listings on eBay, it's not the case that the going rate is £2k. Meister Camera in Hamburg (not exactly a non-profit charity) recently sold one for under £1.2k - that's the kind of territory where, as I said above, I'd perk my ears. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leica-Digital-Module-R-1002085-/274201702764?hash=item3fd7b1f16c%3Ag%3A2jwAAOSwrj9eHIoq&nma=true&si=j1bctKBCEtUKBsvdF%2BPcrK1Iw28%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 There are other listings in the £1.3k/£1.4k - £1.8k territory, but the point is clear: £2.1k for the unboxed one from Cornwall is not remotely realistic. John is surely right in saying that the right price is: "a price substantially less than a guaranteed working one". If you look at Meister's listing, it is rare in accepting that the thing might conk out at any time: "Since Leica started the service for the Digital-Modul-R in 2010 due to the incomplete supply of spare parts by supplier companies, had to be discontinued, the module is sold without any guarantee and excluding warranty!" Most sellers (and maybe some buyers) don't seem to have keyed to this stark reality. You will find a realistic price if you are patient. Find some other way of distracting the GAS for the moment. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobitybob Posted January 23, 2020 Share #26 Posted January 23, 2020 3 hours ago, wlaidlaw said: Did the DMR come when new with an APS frame screen for the R8/9? Wilson Yes it did. When I brought mine from Ffordes it was boxed, and the screen was installed in the R8 that came with it. However, there is a slot in the foam packing that has the original screen, a pair of tweezers and a small brush in a little plastic box. The instructions cover this on page 72 and state, "The focusing screen in the camera must be replaced with the one supplied (A). This has a frame corresponding to the slightly smaller format of the sensor". I suppose if you can't find one it may be possible to draw lines on a 35mm screen. Also, as part of the accessories it also includes a cover for the sensor for when you are not using the DMR. Obviously, if you only have one R8/9 and intend to swap between film and digital then it important to protect the sensor, which otherwise is open to the elements. I still use mine occasionally and enjoy it as a pair with my film R8, (one set of lenses, two useful cameras) but one of my batteries has now died and unfortunately it appears to be the electronics in the battery not the cells that are faulty as there is crack in the board. If you want one as a collector then it may be worth getting the one with a full kit as long as all the part/accessories are there. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Richardson Posted January 23, 2020 Share #27 Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I shot the DMR for several years. While it was a capable camera with good color and sharpness for the time, I do not think it represents a good investment at this time, especially if you enjoy shooting film. I personally think that film is the best way to enjoy the R9. As soon as the M8 was available, my usage of the DMR dropped off significantly. I did have a number of errors with the DMR, such as a tendency for it to jam if it got out of sync with the shutter/winding. I also had a pixel amp failure that appeared spontaneously on a trip...subsequently all pictures had a white line running through them until Leica could fix it. It also failed on me in a helicopter and I had to finish the shoot on an R6.2. Given this, and the fact that the R9 itself is apparently not repairable (at least from the factory), I think paying a significant sum for it is risky. I do not think that it's rendering is any better (in fact it is worse) than the excellent films now available, such as Tmax 100 and 400, Fuji Acros, Portra, Ektar 100 or E100 and Provia. The advantage to these is the beautiful full frame rendering of the lovely R lenses, most of which capture all that the film can give. If you are looking for a Leica DSLR experience, the S2 can be had for around the cost mentioned, which is an astonishing deal given what it can do. It is a massively better digital Leica, embodying the best of the Leica R design cues as well as being one the finest CCD cameras ever made. Edited January 23, 2020 by Stuart Richardson 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted January 23, 2020 Share #28 Posted January 23, 2020 £2100 is more than a little OTT and at least two batteries are required for a several hours' use . If I was considering purchase I'd like to see a photo of the DMR installed on an R8 / R9 body and 'switched on' … to show the battery is OK … and also ask how exactly many actuations the battery is good for. Should be good for at least 120 actuations and a lot more if a refurbished battery. My boxed mint DMR purchased c. 10 years ago from a well known UK Leica Premier Dealer for c. £2K included one new and one dead battery, a recently serviced and near mint and boxed R9, and a complimentary LTM Leitz 135/4 Elmar … latter negotiated / offered to sweeten the deal. The last three DMR modular backs sold by another UK Leica Premier dealer eventually sold for a lot less than £2K … and had been languishing on the shelf for many many months … and one had refurbished batteries. And in 2011 MW Classic listed a DMR / R9 for £1875 https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/140619-thinking-of-buying-an-r9-with-dmr-foolish/?do=findComment&comment=1565265 … it sold quickly dunk 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted January 23, 2020 Share #29 Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) I have a red LED digital alarm clock radio which is, to my knowledge, probably around 30 years old. It belonged to my grandmother and was passed down to me and has been almost continuously switched on for 20 years, and it still works fine. I am aware though that it could fail at any moment and if it does it will simply be disposed of as it will be worthless and unrepairable. Sadly, despite its pedigree the DMR is in a similar predicament. Old electronics are what they are, great whilst they work, but junk when they do not. Personally I would agree with James in that I might pay a reasonable sum for one, but certainly not as much as say for comparison's sake, an M9 camera body, a warranted used body of which can now be bought for well under £2k and which is still supported by Leica. That said a DMR is obviously worth what people are prepared to pay for it. Edited January 23, 2020 by pgk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share #30 Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) The Italian DMR comes with a screen but sadly it looks like a standard R9 one. I suspect that the correct APS-C framelines screen is still sitting in the donor R9. Another negative 😫 The British one does come with the correct screen but as others have said with no case, boxes or papers, the price looks a little heavy at £1899. I am actually considering selling my à la carte M9 (BRG Jaguar Leather). It is probably 3 or 4 years since I last used it and it is certainly the least used of all my Leicas. I feel that with an M8 and M240, digital M's would be sufficiently well represented in my collection. Wilson Edited January 23, 2020 by wlaidlaw Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted January 23, 2020 Share #31 Posted January 23, 2020 6 hours ago, wlaidlaw said: Did the DMR come when new with an APS frame screen for the R8/9? Yes. It gives the correct frame in the viewfinder for the sensor area. It's guesswork without one, but you'd soon get used to it. Don't forget you will need good quality ancient SD cards for it as well, and lots of them. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted January 23, 2020 Share #32 Posted January 23, 2020 https://shop.fujifilm.co.uk/2gb-securedigital-card 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted January 23, 2020 Share #33 Posted January 23, 2020 1 hour ago, wlaidlaw said: sadly it looks like a standard R9 one. Indeed - well spotted. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2020 Share #34 Posted January 24, 2020 20 hours ago, wlaidlaw said: The Italian DMR comes with a screen but sadly it looks like a standard R9 one. I suspect that the correct APS-C framelines screen is still sitting in the donor R9. Another negative 😫 The British one does come with the correct screen but as others have said with no case, boxes or papers, the price looks a little heavy at £1899. I am actually considering selling my à la carte M9 (BRG Jaguar Leather). It is probably 3 or 4 years since I last used it and it is certainly the least used of all my Leicas. I feel that with an M8 and M240, digital M's would be sufficiently well represented in my collection. dealer Wilson Personally I would visit the UK dealer and put £1000 on the counter in cash,pos increase that by max £300.Straight cash deal, no reciepts, I would sooner pay cash than vat etc.Obviosly check the camera first.The camera is unlikely to stand on his books at more than £1000,if that much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 24, 2020 Author Share #35 Posted January 24, 2020 Brian, I already have a fully working R9 so not interested in the camera. The other problem is that he is about 200 miles away. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 24, 2020 Share #36 Posted January 24, 2020 On 1/23/2020 at 5:28 PM, pgk said: I have a red LED digital alarm clock radio which is, to my knowledge, probably around 30 years old. It belonged to my grandmother and was passed down to me and has been almost continuously switched on for 20 years, and it still works fine. I am aware though that it could fail at any moment and if it does it will simply be disposed of as it will be worthless and unrepairable. Sadly, despite its pedigree the DMR is in a similar predicament. Old electronics are what they are, great whilst they work, but junk when they do not. Personally I would agree with James in that I might pay a reasonable sum for one, but certainly not as much as say for comparison's sake, an M9 camera body, a warranted used body of which can now be bought for well under £2k and which is still supported by Leica. That said a DMR is obviously worth what people are prepared to pay for it. I would say that a working DMR should be worth about the same as an M8. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew01 Posted January 24, 2020 Share #37 Posted January 24, 2020 £2100 seems way too much. This dealer in Germany has one for a much more realistic price. I have bought from this dealer and can recommend them. https://www.meister-camera.com/en/second-hand/8826/leica-digital-module-r 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Richardson Posted January 24, 2020 Share #38 Posted January 24, 2020 (edited) Meister Camera is very good (at least the Berlin store), I think you can trust them quite well. That price is far more reasonable, I think. That said, it does not include the R9... In contrast to Jaap, I think the DMR should be worth less than the M8, as the M8 is a fully functional camera, while the DMR is a digital accessory for a film camera. Additionally, the M8 uses lenses that are still produced, batteries are easier to obtain, and more of the components are repairable. I am sure they were made in greater quantity, however...so perhaps from the collector's standpoint is worth more... Edited January 24, 2020 by Stuart Richardson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 24, 2020 Share #39 Posted January 24, 2020 But the DMR is a rarity, with less than 3000 built. And it was more expensive new. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted January 25, 2020 Share #40 Posted January 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said: Meister Camera is very good (at least the Berlin store), I think you can trust them quite well. That price is far more reasonable, I think. That said, it does not include the R9... In contrast to Jaap, I think the DMR should be worth less than the M8, as the M8 is a fully functional camera, while the DMR is a digital accessory for a film camera. Additionally, the M8 uses lenses that are still produced, batteries are easier to obtain, and more of the components are repairable. I am sure they were made in greater quantity, however...so perhaps from the collector's standpoint is worth more... But have you ever used a DMR and experienced its charisma? dunk 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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