setuporg Posted January 8, 2020 Share #1 Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Someone told me, a while ago, not to buy a Mercedes until you are old. “It will be your last car, it’s too comfortable,” they said. Since using SL2 I wonder whether it’s too easy and boring. The M makes one operate aperture, shutter and focus manually. Overgaard prefers it for that reason, reducing photography to its fundamentals. The AF leads to all kids of hubris — face tracking, prefocus, multi-field/field/spot, etc. Now you are managing the AF behavior and are still getting missed shots. You lost the hard stop at infinity, knurled ring or notch, and get an occasionally stiff and jerky manual focusing that feels after-fact. Sure there are very long teles or old eyes to take into account. But if you are capable of using an M, shouldn’t you prefer that? Edited January 8, 2020 by setuporg 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 Hi setuporg, Take a look here Does AF make you lazy?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
evikne Posted January 8, 2020 Share #2 Posted January 8, 2020 I migrated to Leica M because I love to control all settings manually, including focus. If I for example want to focus on something behind a fence or between some branches, it is just as simple as anywhere else (that would not have been the case with AF). And I love to know that all my pictures have their focus placed exactly where I wanted, because it was done with complete consciousness. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas fry Posted January 8, 2020 Share #3 Posted January 8, 2020 I went back to Leica, from Canon 1DX's about 5 years ago and never looked back, I shoot professionally commercial and some weddings, the number of 'in focus' shots has increased, not decreased. I found that auto focus was a solution to a problem that never was a problem in the first place. Manual focus lenses are much easier to focus than an auto focus lens switched to manual, and for example, a couple marching up an aisle after a wedding service are very easy to track with a rangefinder, whereas a few would always be out of focus on auto.. The other reason I prefer manual focus, is because it is harder, manual settings required thought and consideration, and rangefinder frame lines need learned guess work. This does make life harder but the resulting improvement in photography is definitely worth it. I got lazy, leaving auto on, and aperture priority etc... Even portraits with a Noctilux on a rangefinder are all pin sharp (I wear glasses too) - the M240 has the 35mm F1.4 for a wedding and the M10 has the Nocti, with a 21mm Super Elmar in my pocket and generally thats me set. Commercial photography is better with an SL as I use Elinchrom flash triggers, but still with M lenses 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted January 8, 2020 Share #4 Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) I'm happy to be "lazy" as long as I become a better photographer. AF, MF, AE, IBIS, OIS etc have nothing to do with being a good photographer. Edited January 8, 2020 by LocalHero1953 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted January 8, 2020 Share #5 Posted January 8, 2020 The simple answer, for me, is yes. In fact in a recent background conversation with @bags27 I wrote: Quote ...with the SL2 and its AF, I have noticed myself pressing the shutter release a little more often than I'd like, possibly in ways which feel less fully considered than with the M. The M often forced me to find ways to make things work. That additional effort has without question made me a better photographer. While AF has its advantages, it also brings a measure of danger... ceding back many of the forward steps I've made in the past few years having been privileged enough to have shot Ms. The M, particularly when trying to capture action, requires more planning and awareness about the scene and subject. That forethought yields far more than simply getting the shot in focus, it tends to result in more well considered composition as well. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted January 8, 2020 Share #6 Posted January 8, 2020 Think about what the scene in front of you requires. If it is people, and the point of the picture is their interactions and expressions, then relaxed operation of the camera (so that it doesn't call attention to itself and to you) and speed are critical. AF, once mastered, helps in this. Or using an M, if that has become second nature. If it is landscape or urban design, then AF is less important than the other controls. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted January 8, 2020 Share #7 Posted January 8, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) Fortunately the face tracking in the SL2 is crap. So it won't make you lazy, just frustrated. As for AF making me lazy, I don't think so. I select a focus point manually and the camera focuses where I tell it too. Focus and recompose on an M isn't always accurate with fast lenses wide open. I could say that auto exposure modes make me lazy. Or large memory cards. Or chimping. Or they could just give me more time concentrate on the subject and the light instead of those pesky technical details. Plus I use the ultimate antidote to the lazy photographer often. A tripod. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted January 8, 2020 Share #8 Posted January 8, 2020 Spend a little time with an M10-D. Accurate M10 rangefinder, and no other distractions. At the end of the day you see how you've done. It's great. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share #9 Posted January 9, 2020 5 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said: Spend a little time with an M10-D. Accurate M10 rangefinder, and no other distractions. At the end of the day you see how you've done. It's great. I got the M Edition 60 for that! It was the first Leica I truly coveted but could not afford in 2014 when it was made, for the 60th anniversary of the M3. But last year I got one and since then it’s a treasure to use. The ISO is that of 240 so not high, but for day walks works awesomely. I also use M10 and M-P (film occasionally, not often.). The SL2 is addictive though, as was the S before it. Too easy. i wonder if your resolve to use M10-D for wide angle will hold when the SL versions of the 24mm and 28mm arrive!:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share #10 Posted January 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Artin said: The most pleasure I ever got in photography ever in my life was when I did a photo shoot of 20 waterfalls in Ontario with a Sinar F 4x5 view camera. It was a calendar for Ontario tourism 30 years ago. This spring I am going to do the same waterfalls with the SL2 just for fun If I were in your shoes I’d take along the S 007 and X1Dii as well.:). The waterfalls got nowhere to go! Could try all the lenses... Even the TS APO S 120mm... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterGA Posted January 9, 2020 Share #11 Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 43 9 hours ago, setuporg said: Someone told me, a while ago, not to buy a Mercedes until you are old. “It will be your last car, it’s too comfortable,” they said. Since using SL2 I wonder whether it’s too easy and boring. The M makes one operate aperture, shutter and focus manually. Overgaard prefers it for that reason, reducing photography to its fundamentals. The AF leads to all kids of hubris — face tracking, prefocus, multi-field/field/spot, etc. Now you are managing the AF behavior and are still getting missed shots. You lost the hard stop at infinity, knurled ring or notch, and get an occasionally stiff and jerky manual focusing that feels after-fact. Sure there are very long teles or old eyes to take into account. But if you are capable of using an M, shouldn’t you prefer that? If you are 'capable' why not actually get a real camera - one without any focusing aids apart from a bolt on viewfinder that isonly good for framing guesstimates and use lenses whose distance scales aren't calibrated and aperture settings whose accuracy is an option depending on the copal shutter's mood on any day- mated to a digi back which needs personalised shimming to achieve any sort of accuracy at infinity as a starter? Like this one I used to street shoot with - when it wasn't attached to a wooden tripod and taking up space in my mancave. 🤣 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited January 9, 2020 by PeterGA 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/305178-does-af-make-you-lazy/?do=findComment&comment=3887879'>More sharing options...
setuporg Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share #12 Posted January 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Artin said: I will not go Medium format anymore .. I don’t do it for a living therefore really can’t justify the expense The original X1D is half the SL2 now:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillbeers15 Posted January 9, 2020 Share #13 Posted January 9, 2020 I shoot my SL2 almost all on SL lenses and relying on AF. I am satisfied with the AF capability as it pleases me more than 90% of the time. My 21 Lux and 50Noc are occasionally employed by my SL2 as there are no such SL lenses and it does not feel right over my M10. I happen to have my M10 sold last week due to an irresistible offer and I am looking forward to a higher pixel M11 ( hopefully with IBIS as well) over the next 12-15mths. I also happen to own 3 Mercedeses,...by your definition I must be real lazy. SL/SL2 is my workhorse. My general go to camera for my hobby. I treat my M as my soul camera. One that makes me happy taking the picture but limits my application and creativity. Yes, you say I can also be creative with M camera, but I’ll say painfully and slowly,...but can be an enjoyable journey for most still applications. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
setuporg Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share #14 Posted January 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, Artin said: real medium formats in 6x7 size sensors like a Mamiya 7 Or better yet something like the Linholf 612. Type. And mark my word the day will come. I will be all over that. What is the size and weight of those lenses? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillbeers15 Posted January 9, 2020 Share #15 Posted January 9, 2020 53 minutes ago, Artin said: I have 3 Mercedes as well but I prefer my Jaguar XK R , so I am marginally lazy I have an SL (R230) , so I am the lazy one. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Q Posted January 9, 2020 Share #16 Posted January 9, 2020 I think a camera like the A9 can make you lazy. The hit rate of spraying and praying is ridiculously high, so all you have to do is point the camera at the general direction of the subject and fire away lol 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted January 9, 2020 Share #17 Posted January 9, 2020 4 hours ago, setuporg said: i wonder if your resolve to use M10-D for wide angle will hold when the SL versions of the 24mm and 28mm arrive!:) I have an order in for the 24 SL Summicron, which I expect will be sharper across the field than the 2000-ish M24 Elmarit-asph. But the M10D + Wide Angle combo is much more discreet, so opportunities for both should continue. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted January 9, 2020 Share #18 Posted January 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Artin said: I have 3 Mercedes as well but I prefer my Jaguar XK R , so I am marginally lazy I can afford Leica since I don't have a car. Priorities, I guess. 4 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillbeers15 Posted January 9, 2020 Share #19 Posted January 9, 2020 17 minutes ago, helged said: I can afford Leica since I don't have a car. Priorities, I guess. Priorities indeed but you’re just being too humble.😆 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted January 9, 2020 Share #20 Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Artin said: You probably have a driver , or a crew for your private jet No. But I have been a member of a local, non-profit car sharing organisation for 20 years now. So I have access to a car when convenient. Not often, but it happens. Otherwise I bike. And I hardly fly (anymore). 'Nough said; let's get back on (topic) track... Edited January 9, 2020 by helged 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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