kuau Posted December 30, 2019 Share #1 Posted December 30, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) Has anyone used there SL2 with an Atomos Ninja 5? I have mine all hooked up seems to work though I am not sure about the proper setup on the Ninja. I have L-LOG selected on the SL2 yet I don't even know what the native ISO is for L-LOG is it 800? Any other tips would be greatly appriciated Lastly what are the main differences between shooting in "Video" vs "CINE" mode on the SL2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 30, 2019 Posted December 30, 2019 Hi kuau, Take a look here SL2 with Atomos Ninja V setup. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
digitalfx Posted December 30, 2019 Share #2 Posted December 30, 2019 I haven't tried it yet as you can record a 12 bit internally, but to answer your last question...the difference is only in the structure of the menus. For example instead of shutter speed it will display shutter angle. ASA instead of ISO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuau Posted December 31, 2019 Author Share #3 Posted December 31, 2019 Actually its limited to 10 bit 4.2.2 60FPS external that’s what I am interested in yet there is no information I can find online either about L-LOG specific or recording externally except on the original SL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted December 31, 2019 Share #4 Posted December 31, 2019 1 hour ago, kuau said: Actually its limited to 10 bit 4.2.2 60FPS external that’s what I am interested in yet there is no information I can find online either about L-LOG specific or recording externally except on the original SL sorry, correct 4:2:2 10bit not sure there is much of a benefit as selecting 422/10bit option says its for both SD and HDMI outputs. and 400ASA is the lowest option available Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted December 31, 2019 Share #5 Posted December 31, 2019 looking thru the options you gain Cine4K60 in 10-bit 4:2:2 vs 4:2:0 8bit w/ SD looks to be the only advantage...you may have to wait on Atomos to support L-LOG...but it wouldn't hurt to try it. Just set your Gamma to L-Log and try recording. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuau Posted December 31, 2019 Author Share #6 Posted December 31, 2019 Well actually L-Log is / was supported with the SL, Atomos has a setup video for the SL I’m goi g to do some testing today 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted December 31, 2019 Share #7 Posted December 31, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) Please let us know how it goes...id love to see a photo of the rig Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuau Posted December 31, 2019 Author Share #8 Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) This is what my setup looks like Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited December 31, 2019 by kuau 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304886-sl2-with-atomos-ninja-v-setup/?do=findComment&comment=3882553'>More sharing options...
BernardC Posted December 31, 2019 Share #9 Posted December 31, 2019 17 hours ago, kuau said: Actually its limited to 10 bit 4.2.2 60FPS external that’s what I am interested in yet there is no information I can find online either about L-LOG specific or recording externally except on the original SL Leica's L-Log format is poorly documented and supported, so you have to figure it out on your own. I keep hoping for Leica to provide ACES IDTs, like any serious cine company would. In the meanwhile, some of the Arri log formats are fairly close to the L-Log response curve. Here's my Atomos workflow with the SL (not the SL2, but it should be close): Set the camera for 10-bit HDMI 4:2:2 L-Log Set an ISO around 500-1000. This will depend on the scene and on your metering technique, 800 is a good baseline. Set the Atomos to a corresponding Arri log format (there are a few available). The image should look just about right on screen. Set your exposure by eye, or use the Atomos' scopes if you are familiar with that workflow. Make sure you aren't clipping highlights too much, or crushing shadows In your NLE, assign the same Arri log format to your clips. Most NLEs come with Arri LUTs built-in. Take notes, so you remember what works best next time. That should provide you with a decent baseline grade. You can make changes from there. Remember to review your footage on a well-adjusted television in a dimly-lit room. Computer monitors can be very deceiving. Any TV will need some calibration work to get a neutral image, so you'll need to search for recommendations for your specific model. There's usually a "cinema", "natural", or "professional" picture mode that will get you close to a neutral picture. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuau Posted December 31, 2019 Author Share #10 Posted December 31, 2019 Thanks for the tips Bernard, As soon as it warms up a little bit in my neck of the woods I will go out and shoot some test footage... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuau Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share #11 Posted January 2, 2020 Thanks for the tips Bernard, As soon as it warms up a little bit in my neck of the woods I will go out and shoot some test footage... So I did a few quick tests this morning with my SL:2 and Atomos Ninja V Basically here was my setup L-LOG set on the SL2 and ISO/ASA set to 400 which seems to be the lowest it will go when shooting L-LOG which leads me to believe that is the "native" ISO/ASA On my Ninja I tried 2 different settings: Camera Output set to off then Camera Output "ON" Arri for Camera Type, Gamma LogCIE400,. Gamut Alexa Wide Gamut When I imported the footage Into DaVinci Resolve, the first thing I do is go into Clip Attributes and change "Data Levels' from Auto to Full. From what I have read there is a bug with Prores coming out of the Ninja and doing this quick "change" fixes the issue. Whats interesting is both clips looked identical to one another so I am not sure what's going on with the HDMI out of the SL2. Oh well more testing is required. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted January 3, 2020 Share #12 Posted January 3, 2020 22 hours ago, kuau said: Whats interesting is both clips looked identical to one another so I am not sure what's going on with the HDMI out of the SL2. That's normal. The changes you made on the Atomos only affect the display, not the recording. It is encoding the HDMI signal straight to ProRes without doing any colour/contrast adjustment. What you are doing on the Atomos is applying an Arri LUT to the display, so it doesn't look flat and de-saturated (as ungraded log footage does). Later you will apply the same LUT in your editor so that it matches what you saw when you were shooting. 22 hours ago, kuau said: ISO/ASA set to 400 which seems to be the lowest it will go when shooting L-LOG which leads me to believe that is the "native" ISO/ASA The notion of "native" ISO isn't the same in video. 400 gives you more range in the shadows, and less in the highlights (compared to 800). It would make sense to use that if you are shooting in direct sunlight and you may want to recover details from shady areas. On the other hand, if you are shooting a stage show, and you thing that a stronger spot light will come-on half way through the performance, you should start at a higher ISO. That will give you more range to correct for bright highlights. Ultimately, your eyes are the judge of ISO. Run some tests (same scene, different ISO), watch them on a good TV in a darkened room, pick the one that you liked the best. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted January 3, 2020 Share #13 Posted January 3, 2020 I should add that some people like to keep the display in log format (not LUT applied) on the Atomos. The advantage of that is that you see everything that you are recording, albeit in a surreal desaturated/flat way. That used to be the only option before recorders allowed you to apply LUTs. I think that this is the reason why there was a fashion for very flat images a few years back; directors fell in love with the way their images looked when they were shooting, and they kept the same look in the final footage. It's certainly a valid "look," but I think it has been over-used. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Levin Posted January 3, 2020 Share #14 Posted January 3, 2020 Following this! Back when I had a Nikon D800, it was advised to remove all cards from camera when connected to an external Atomos recorder. In my case it was the Ninja Blade. I can't find the article that mentioned this. I am now using a D850 with an Atomos Ninja Flame. I have never removed the cards when that is connected. To be honest, I never saw anything that recommended that. My results have been fine. So on to the SL2 and Atomos xxxx, can anyone verify whether or not to remove media when using Atomos recorder? Or doesn't it matter (hopefully). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted January 3, 2020 Share #15 Posted January 3, 2020 9 minutes ago, Jonathan Levin said: can anyone verify whether or not to remove media when using Atomos recorder? Or doesn't it matter (hopefully). It doesn't matter. Some old cameras made you jump through hoops to get "clean HDMI." Removing cards was one of those tricks. Otherwise you would get informational overlays on your HDMI feed, like the microphone levels, or the recording time available, etc. Modern cameras don't have that issue. Camera makers have realized that a recordeable HDMI-out is a salable feature. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Levin Posted January 3, 2020 Share #16 Posted January 3, 2020 BernardC, thank you so much for clearing that up. I just got off the phone with Atomos (Renny?) tech support, and he confirmed as well. What a pain in the butt that was with the 800 and Blade. Apparently the only other camera that shoots true PRO-Res RAW is the Z series Nikon, which requires sending in camera for servicing and the V needs some sort of firmware or adjustment as well. Back to the OP. Great info here! JL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuau Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share #17 Posted January 3, 2020 Thanks Bernard, I was under the impression that you set the Camera Output, this is suppose to match what is coming out the HDMI port., yet what you said makes sense. So basically in theory if I record in L-LOG format internally it should match the ProRes footage coming off the Atomos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted January 3, 2020 Share #18 Posted January 3, 2020 20 minutes ago, kuau said: So basically in theory if I record in L-LOG format internally it should match the ProRes footage coming off the Atomos. I believe that the HDMI-out is 4:2:2 10-bit, as opposed to 4:2:0 internally. That won't make much of a difference in most cases, but it will improve colour resolution. You definitely want to shoot 4:2:2 for green screen, for instance. The Atomos can also record at higher bit rates (depending on the flavour of ProRes that you choose), which means less chance of compression artifacts. ProRes itself is also a more editor-friendly file format, as long as it's on a fast disk. Some NLE software is significantly faster/smoother with ProRes. You will need to test your own setup, it really depends on your video card, I/O speed, software, CPU, etc. With the SL (not the SL2), internal recording was limited to 8-bit, which isn't ideal for log. In that case it's better to avoid log when recording internally, and just dial the contrast, saturation, and sharpness all the way down. The SL2 can record 10-bit internally, so that shouldn't be an issue. Long story short: the Atomos (or other similar recorders) provide a very useful larger display, other convenience features (like larger/faster SSDs), and higher bit rate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuau Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share #19 Posted January 3, 2020 I just got this from Leica Support in the USA for those who are interested ”Hi Steven, We have not published a base sensitivity for L Log. However some other input from techs globally seems to point to ISO/ASA 800. I was told we are working on having a LUT. The Arri Alexa LUT is what cinematographers are currently using. I have not used the V but some of the other Atomos recorders have these LUTs onboard. As far as the battery indication... I’m sure there will be a fix in firmware. In the meantime you can power the camera via the USBC port with any battery pack you could charge a tablet with... the battery needs to be in place to complete the circuit but the camera can then run off battery or AC. Thank you, Ray” 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted January 4, 2020 Share #20 Posted January 4, 2020 6 hours ago, BernardC said: I believe that the HDMI-out is 4:2:2 10-bit, as opposed to 4:2:0 internally. That won't make much of a difference in most cases, but it will improve colour resolution. You definitely want to shoot 4:2:2 for green screen, for instance. SL2 records 10-bit 4:2:2 internally to SD card. The only advantage to HDMI (besides adding the viewing LUT) is you can go up to 4k/60 vs up to 4k/30 internally 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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