SL2 with Atomos Ninja V setup

[Photoworks]

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16 hours ago, kai2ser said:

I'm running a workflow of Leica SL2, Atmos Ninja 5 (V10.51), and Adobe Premier (v14.3.1).  Out of interest I've just been looking at the on camera and gamma/L-Log records for 60 seconds.

Both the Ninja and Premier recognize the fps well on these settings.  However, when I try say 120 or 180 fps on FHD/1080p (which records on APS-C), both seem to see 59.94 fps.  Has anyone less tried this/had the same issue?

Maybe the use-case here is to capture a fluttering hummingbird (50-80 wing flaps per second).....  Its a extreme case, but just wondering if anyone has tried what this workflow does when you try going beyond 60fps...  (The 1 m record on 180fps hows 6 min on 1 min actual record, and 4 min on 120fps, so this seems to adjust upwards.  I'm starting to look at the container sizes if I need to adjust up beyond 60 fps, but just wondering if anyone has already tread that path.... and maybe even has some nice hummingbird footage!).

#	Record	On Camera / Regular (GB)	Atoms (ProRes) (GB)
1	23.98 fps (10Bit) (4K. Full Frame)	3.04	5.92
2	29.97 fps (10Bit) (4K, Full Frame)	NA	6.92
3	59.94 fps (8Bit) (4K, Full Frame)	NA	14.42 GB

why you don't have data for SD card recording at 29p and 60p?

[kai2ser]

27 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

why you don't have data for SD card recording at 29p and 60p?

When you try to record full frame 4K at those speeds the SL2 says this mode is only supported though HDMI.  So therefore I just press record on the Atoms.  On 24fps I was actually triggering from the camera, so you get the two...  Hope that's clear?

The FHD 60-180 does record on the camera, and the Atmos.  But as noted, when I see on Atmos or Premier, it suggests its just "seeing" 59.94.  Probably just have some of the container settings wrong, but wondering if folks are done a successful workflow to see L-Log equivalent for these from Atoms to Premiere.

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[Photoworks]

3 hours ago, kai2ser said:

When you try to record full frame 4K at those speeds the SL2 says this mode is only supported though HDMI.  So therefore I just press record on the Atoms.  On 24fps I was actually triggering from the camera, so you get the two...  Hope that's clear?

The FHD 60-180 does record on the camera, and the Atmos.  But as noted, when I see on Atmos or Premier, it suggests its just "seeing" 59.94.  Probably just have some of the container settings wrong, but wondering if folks are done a successful workflow to see L-Log equivalent for these from Atoms to Premiere.

you are right It says that you can shoot in LOG or HLG

I was be able to do 30p at 4k and the size in LOG is 3.04GB

I usually shoot in C4K format, that is in 30p log about the same size 3.02 GB for 60sec

60p  only works in 8Bit and the camera does not record L-LOG in 8bit. so no option in camera like that, maybe Leica can add 8bit LOG

[simon_hsn]

I have found my personal favorite cage for the Leica SL(2): 

https://www.smallrig.com.de/products/smallrig-quick-release-half-cage-fur-panasonic-s1h-2513?_pos=9&_sid=d8bbc0aec&_ss=r

- A half-cage is perfect for me as it allows best access to memory cards and battery, as well as has the best feel (nothing in your way) and as small as possible.

- You can remove the side handle for an even smaller footprint.

- You can easily put the camera into the cage and remove it

- You can mount a monitor and 2-3 additional accessories, e.g. wireless microphones, shotgun, led lights, etc.

In my opinion, the quality you get out of the SL in combination with a Atomos Ninja V (10 Bit 4.2.2) is really good, also for 2020+.

I just wished they would support ProResRaw.

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[120ince]

Nice set up! How do you deal to power the camera when you shoot? Did you experience any external power battery working with the USB-C connector?

[sebas_]

I have opted for a Manfrotto/Wooden Camera Unified Cage medium, added a SmallRig Arri Rosette Adapter on the left side to add the Tilta Side Focus Handle Type II (F570 Battery) The handle as a Micro DC 12V and 8V (for Tilta Nucleus Nano) output. Omnicharge offers a DC To USB-C Adapter, which I intend to use for powering the Leica of the handgrip. As I soon as I receive all parts, I will update how it’s working. 

[120ince]

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Thank you sebas_ to share with us the different parts of your rig. What I particularly like is that it keeps everything very compact. Impatient to know how it works!

[caissa]

On 8/14/2020 at 8:10 PM, sebas_ said:

I have opted for a Manfrotto/Wooden Camera Unified Cage medium, added a SmallRig Arri Rosette Adapter on the left side to add the Tilta Side Focus Handle Type II (F570 Battery) The handle as a Micro DC 12V and 8V (for Tilta Nucleus Nano) output. Omnicharge offers a DC To USB-C Adapter, which I intend to use for powering the Leica of the handgrip. As I soon as I receive all parts, I will update how it’s working. 

The important point is if the battery pack or power bank supports USB PD (the official standard). From the description I see that PD is mentioned on the website but it is not clear if it really fully adheres to the standard. The SL2 needs PD to be fully functional. (At least I could only get all functionality with devices with official PD support and corresponding PD cable. Recharge was always possible also from legacy ports (what you typically use for mobile phones), but not running the SL2 from external power, which only worked from the PD port.)

Many vendors have both types. Usually for devices with (official) PD support they charge more. (For example Anker devices typically come in two flavors that look very similar, but the PD version costs twice as much).

The setup looks very nice. The question is just, does it have the full USB PD functionality ?   (The Tilta device, or the battery inside. The Omnicharge battery seems to support USB PD ...)

Edited August 17, 2020 by caissa

[sebas_]

Am 17.8.2020 um 08:37 schrieb 120ince:

Thank you sebas_ to share with us the different parts of your rig. What I particularly like is that it keeps everything very compact. Impatient to know how it works!

Yes, That was really important for me. Had a BMCC6k before and it was far too clunky for my taste (including V-Mount battery). So keeping things small and simple was mandatory. 

I have added the Manfrotto Friktionsarm Kit 244 Micro (MAN244MICROAR) with an Manfrotto 3/8 Arri Anti-Rotation Adapter (244ADPT38AA) to be able to mount my Ninja V with SmallRig Cage. I will also add the SmallRig 2506 Quick Release Plate, so that I can leave my RSS Baseplate on the camera and quickly mount/unmount it from the cage. 

Currently looking for a single rod clamp adapter, which fits on the rod on the left, to be able to attach a short rod for the Tilta Nucleus Nano follow focus. Then I guess it's complete. 

I have to be patient a bit, as some of the items have a delivery time up to 6 weeks... 

Am 17.8.2020 um 09:16 schrieb caissa:

The important point is if the battery pack or power bank supports USB PD (the official standard). From the description I see that PD is mentioned on the website but it is not clear if it really fully adheres to the standard. The SL2 needs PD to be fully functional. (At least I could only get all functionality with devices with official PD support and corresponding PD cable. Recharge was always possible also from legacy ports (what you typically use for mobile phones), but not running the SL2 from external power, which only worked from the PD port.)

Many vendors have both types. Usually for devices with (official) PD support they charge more. (For example Anker devices typically come in two flavors that look very similar, but the PD version costs twice as much).

The setup looks very nice. The question is just, does it have the full USB PD functionality ?   (The Tilta device, or the battery inside. The Omnicharge battery seems to support USB PD ...)

I have yet to test it out to be 100% sure, but I guess that it should work. The adapter just needs 6-21V (recommended 19V) DC input. The Tilta handle outputs 12V DC. The Omnicharge adapter by itself then "does the magic" to convert it to the PD standard (5V, 9V 12V, 15V, 20V up to 3A). So I hope the SL2 likes one of these output profiles. 

Additional good news, I just got word from Leica, that they are actively working on a solution for the battery issue (especially with the Sigma Adapter). 
 

[caissa]

The idea of PD is that the devices talk to each other to find the optimal settings. If you try to set the values just manually on one side they may be technically ok (sufficient electricity), but the devices do not talk to each other and cannot “agree”. I had devices “with the right settings” but no PD support, so they did not work together - or just on the very lowest level, and this was not good enough to supply the SL2 with sufficient power.

It is no magic, but simply a common standard, that the F570 battery probably does not support. The connector is just a “dumb” device and will not be able to jump in. If you take instead the omnicharge battery (with PD support) then it might work.

But we will see.

In the meantime, you could just buy a PD power supply. (About 30 or 45 Watt). (I use Anker devices, they are the smallest and most efficient). You can connect this to the SL2 for a test (via the PD plug). It will probably work with the SL2 and ALL video modes. If PD works correctly then the SL2 should work completely on external power, and the internal battery would not go down. (Even after hours).

If the F570 would work it would be great - it costs nothing compared to the Leica batteries. But I am not optimistic. But the Anker 26800 PD is also very cheap compared to Leica batteries (or even the handgrip). Currently one of the best options in my opinion (power for many hours, even days). Small enough to be put into a pocket (jacket or trouser) or fixed to the tripod.

Edited August 18, 2020 by caissa

[sebas_]

Yes, exactly PD handels the communication between the two to set the right amount of power.

Regarding the omnicharge adapter I doubt that it would be a "dumb" adapter, as it was created especially for the older Omni 20 batteries, which do not offer any PD protocol. Additionally PD needs an USB-C connection (so far as I am aware), it could not transfer the data over a normal DC plug, which is used to connect the omnicharge adapter to the omnicharge battery. 

The newer omnicharge 20+ and 20C+ (and others) have the PD standard built-in, so no need for the adapter anymore. 

I am waiting on a reply from omnicharge to recheck this. 
 

yes, it would be really great if this could work as the F570 is stored within the Tilta handgrip, which makes the whole rig self contained and pretty small. 
 

I am currently using the ANKER Powercore + 26,800 mAh Powerbank mit Power Delivery as interim solution, but sadly the error messages occur nevertheless. I guess I have the first generation with PD, maybe that’s too old? 
Or there’s something going wrong with the combination of SL2, Sigma Adapter, Canon or Zeiss lenses. I do hope that Leica is fixing this in the next firmware update.

The error is pretty strange. I can run for quite amount of time with the Anker attached. I stop the camera, it goes to sleep and when I want to restart recording the error pops up (although battery is shown full and external power icon is visible). 
When I put out the SD cards and record to the Ninja V, I can start recording with the shutter button of the camera although the error is displayed on the camera display. The error stays visible on the camera display, but it seems not to interrupt the recording to the ninja. So it’s quite a odd behavior.  

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by sebas_

[sebas_]

I have just got an answer from Omnicharge and it looks very promising. 

"Thanks for contacting Omnicharge support.
Our DC To USB-C Adapter is managing the Power Delivery by itself. The only thing you have to do is set up the Omnicharge DC output to 19V."

The adapter handels all the PD stuff, accepts an input between 6-21V. And I get an output of 12V via the Tilta Handle. 

As soon as I get all the items, I will test it out. 

[Aaron Daniel]

On 8/12/2020 at 11:19 AM, simon_hsn said:

I have found my personal favorite cage for the Leica SL(2): 

https://www.smallrig.com.de/products/smallrig-quick-release-half-cage-fur-panasonic-s1h-2513?_pos=9&_sid=d8bbc0aec&_ss=r

- A half-cage is perfect for me as it allows best access to memory cards and battery, as well as has the best feel (nothing in your way) and as small as possible.

- You can remove the side handle for an even smaller footprint.

- You can easily put the camera into the cage and remove it

- You can mount a monitor and 2-3 additional accessories, e.g. wireless microphones, shotgun, led lights, etc.

In my opinion, the quality you get out of the SL in combination with a Atomos Ninja V (10 Bit 4.2.2) is really good, also for 2020+.

I just wished they would support ProResRaw.

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Hey Simon, looks like a sweet setup!

If you were to attach a handle to the top of the cage, do you think you'd be comfortable with the weight of the camera + other accessories? I'm really looking into getting a similar setup, but have been worried about weight and weight distribution

[cba20k]

On 1/5/2020 at 3:47 AM, Aktenschrank said:

last post, sorry for the stream of conscious style posting, this might not be very helpful since I basically just confirmed what @kuau already found out. Anyway, just tried to run the SL2 with my MacBook Pro Charger attached, while the battery warning was visible. And what I get is the following error message: "USB power supply is unavailable. Power supply is insufficient for the connected device". Which I personally think cannot be true, since the MacBook Pro charger is capable of delivering 85w.

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I'm having the same issue. I've tried with a 60w and 85w MacBook Pro power adapter (the 60w was recommended by Leica) as well as numerous battery banks from Mophie and Goal Zero. If I stick to 1080p I experience no issues. One thing I am considering is ordering a Panasonic AC adapter (ie the one normally bundled with the S series cameras) as when I had an S1 I had no issues with power delivery at all. Has anyone here tried that?

[caissa]

Apple sells Anker power adapters with USB PD on their website. Why ? Because they are more efficient and smaller than their own. I use the 45W with the SL2 (that came with the Anker 26800 PD+ Battery Bank). For me Anker works best with the SL2. Why Leica "recommends" the Apple adapter is a miracle to me.

[120ince]

On 9/1/2020 at 9:31 PM, caissa said:

Apple sells Anker power adapters with USB PD on their website. Why ? Because they are more efficient and smaller than their own. I use the 45W with the SL2 (that came with the Anker 26800 PD+ Battery Bank). For me Anker works best with the SL2. Why Leica "recommends" the Apple adapter is a miracle to me.

How long do you succeed in filming with the  Anker 26800 PD+ Battery Bank?

[cba20k]

On 9/1/2020 at 5:31 PM, caissa said:

Apple sells Anker power adapters with USB PD on their website. Why ? Because they are more efficient and smaller than their own. I use the 45W with the SL2 (that came with the Anker 26800 PD+ Battery Bank). For me Anker works best with the SL2. Why Leica "recommends" the Apple adapter is a miracle to me.

Please forgive me if I'm wrong but I do not believe Leica offers an AC USB C adapter for the Leica SL/SL2?

[caissa]

15 hours ago, 120ince said:

How long do you succeed in filming with the  Anker 26800 PD+ Battery Bank?

This battery pack is maybe overkill for you. It contains more energy than I typically need in a day (also for other equipment). But I like that as I try to use the devices in the 15% to 80% range (as learned from the Tesla drivers). By the way it also contains Panasonic cells like the Teslas. So it suits the SL2 well (with Panasonic technology).

It's maybe even enough for a 5 day trip (if you try to be careful). But usually it can be recharged overnight. So I never use it to the end.

[hirohhhh]

On 3/18/2020 at 3:43 PM, Aaron Daniel said:

Still wondering if there's a way for the Atomos Ninja to allow L-log recording!

Also, here is a quick test I did with the internal l-log after some correction + grade

*am currently urged to stay quarantined in Ottawa, Canada*

 

Beautiful picture. Is this an anamorphic lens, or the effect was added in the post?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[hirohhhh]

What do you use to mount Ninja on SL hotshoe? I have "SmallRig Swivel and Tilt Monitor Mount" that I used on my S1H, but I can see the scratches all over the hotshoe on S1H, which I don't care too much, but I don't want to scratch my SL2 with this cheap mount.