What's the fastest way to toggle AF/MF on SL2?

[LocalHero1953]

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3 hours ago, SrMi said:

Any reason not to use BBF? I assume that you do not have Lumix lenses with the mechanical clutch as they switch to MF quickly.

P.S.: How do I see to whom the response is directed when a quote is not used?

I do use back button focusing, a lot. But I want to switch to MF for when AF doesn't work: subjects partly hidden by leaves, twigs, fences, mesh; subjects reflected in a mirror; macro subjects; subjects in low light with little contrast - quite a lot of times really. I find the shutter half-press method too unreliable when you're juggling camera angles as well - it's too easy to press or release the shutter inadvertently - I use it but I'd rather have a toggle button alternative. I don't have any lens with a mechanical focus clutch

I get that other people want to do things differently. But suggesting that there could/should be another option does not stop them keeping going with their approach.

Ref your PS: my reply was directed to the previous two posts, yours and Michali's - you were both making the same point.

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[SrMi]

25 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I do use back button focusing, a lot. But I want to switch to MF for when AF doesn't work: subjects partly hidden by leaves, twigs, fences, mesh; subjects reflected in a mirror; macro subjects; subjects in low light with little contrast - quite a lot of times really. I find the shutter half-press method too unreliable when you're juggling camera angles as well - it's too easy to press or release the shutter inadvertently - I use it but I'd rather have a toggle button alternative. I don't have any lens with a mechanical focus clutch

I get that other people want to do things differently. But suggesting that there could/should be another option does not stop them keeping going with their approach.

Ref your PS: my reply was directed to the previous two posts, yours and Michali's - you were both making the same point.

I recognize the challenging focusing situation well, and back-button-focusing (BBF) is the best solution for that, in my experience.

With BBF, you are essentially in MF mode and invoke AF on demand, no need to keep shutter button half-pressed. When AF via back-button does not work, you focus manually. What am I missing in your post?

I do both MF and AF with all my other cameras, but I never switch between AF/MF modes explicitly as BBF covers all cases (AFc, AFs, MF).

 

[setuporg]

4 hours ago, michali said:

I've used this method for countless wildlife shots with the SL, especially with Leopards in trees with branches & leaves in the way, or Lions in long grass.

Are they hiring a second photographer there?:)

[LocalHero1953]

1 minute ago, SrMi said:

I recognize the challenging focusing situation well, and back-button-focusing (BBF) is the best solution for that, in my experience.

With BBF, you are essentially in MF mode and invoke AF on demand, no need to keep shutter button half-pressed. When AF via back-button does not work, you focus manually. What am I missing in your post?

I do both MF and AF with all my other cameras, but I never switch between AF/MF modes explicitly as BBF covers all cases (AFc, AFs, MF).

 

Yes, you can use BBF and MF, but I want to switch from AF on the shutter to low risk MF. I would characterise the difference as BBF is manual focusing with an auto focus option, though the AF is not as quick/instant as using the shutter. I want quick auto focus with an option to switch to manual.

All these different approaches are useful in their own scenarios - but they are all different.

[SrMi]

Just now, LocalHero1953 said:

Yes, you can use BBF and MF, but I want to switch from AF on the shutter to low risk MF. I would characterise the difference as BBF is manual focusing with an auto focus option, though the AF is not as quick/instant as using the shutter. I want quick auto focus with an option to switch to manual.

All these different approaches are useful in their own scenarios - but they are all different.

There should be no difference in focusing speed between BBF and shutter-button focus, unless you are using pre-focus. All professional wildlife photographer I met use BBF.

I see your use case. You prefer using shutter button to focus and would like to switch between AF and MF without removing your eye from EVF. I have not seen anyone doing it that way, but everybody has its preferred workflow. On SL/SL2 that can be done only with Panasonic and Sigma lenses.

[LocalHero1953]

3 minutes ago, SrMi said:

There should be no difference in focusing speed between BBF and shutter-button focus, unless you are using pre-focus. All professional wildlife photographer I met use BBF.

I see your use case. You prefer using shutter button to focus and would like to switch between AF and MF without removing your eye from EVF. I have not seen anyone doing it that way, but everybody has its preferred workflow. On SL/SL2 that can be done only with Panasonic and Sigma lenses.

With your finger/thumb in place, there should indeed be no difference between the speed of the two. There is a big difference, to my mind, in comfort/convenience/ergonomics.

I don't shoot wildlife; I shoot people (rarely wild, sometimes in macro).

I'm not sure why you seem puzzled by my wishes, or those of the OP. I want a quick way to switch, fully, from normal AF (on the shutter) to full time MF and back again. It's a different way of working from yours. I don't expect you to want the same - your system works fine - it does for me, for the particular occasions when I need to use it.

[SrMi]

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13 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

With your finger/thumb in place, there should indeed be no difference between the speed of the two. There is a big difference, to my mind, in comfort/convenience/ergonomics.

I don't shoot wildlife; I shoot people (rarely wild, sometimes in macro).

I'm not sure why you seem puzzled by my wishes, or those of the OP. I want a quick way to switch, fully, from normal AF (on the shutter) to full time MF and back again. It's a different way of working from yours. I don't expect you to want the same - your system works fine - it does for me, for the particular occasions when I need to use it.

I am not puzzled by your approach, nor do I want to tell you that your approach is wrong. I was only curious why that was a problem for you. Thank you for explaining your situation. Happy shooting.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Buy an S1R. Has a nice switch, in exactly the right spot. I use it all the time when I travel.

Gordon

[setuporg]

Thanks Gordon, but I've just obtained the SL2, in addition to a range of Ms and the complete S system with the 007.  Even SL2 was a bit of a yield to the excitement of the day and an idea to use IBIS/fast AF with the existing wide range of lenses.  I'm absolutely not going to get more of the FF mirrorless!:) . I got the Pentax K1 and some of its limiteds and new zooms so that's where I'd experiment if I need more FF ideas...  And I got the X1Ds for the mirrorless MF...  Not a big fan of EVF, yet the SL2 surprised me.

Edited December 26, 2019 by setuporg

[michali]

14 hours ago, michali said:

Agree. I've used this method for countless wildlife shots with the SL, especially with Leopards in trees with branches & leaves in the way, or Lions in long grass. There's no other way to do this. I use AF very  selectively with my wildlife work.

AF is useless in a situation like the one in the image below. In post#15  Sillbeers mentions  "Desensitising Depth in the AF menu profiles". Haven't had an opportunity to try this out yet, I'm not too to sure how effective this would be. It may be easier & faster to switch to MF and guaranteed to nail focus.

13 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Whatever works for you, and at present there is no choice - the half shutter press is the only option. 
I'd rather have the option of a quick switch to MF with no risk of a finger slip on the trigger while focusing.

Paul, I hear what you're saying about wanting to switch quickly. What about the suggestions in Mark & Tom's posts #6 & #7, assigning this to the front button?

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Edited December 26, 2019 by michali

[SrMi]

56 minutes ago, michali said:

AF is useless in a situation like the one in the image below. In post#15  Sillbeers mentions  "Desensitising Depth in the AF menu profiles". Haven't had an opportunity to try this out yet, I'm not too to sure how effective this would be. It may be easier & faster to switch to MF and guaranteed to nail focus.

Paul, I hear what you're saying about wanting to switch quickly. What about the suggestions in Mark & Tom's posts #6 & #7, assigning this to the front button?

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Spot or Field AF Mode should work fine for this. Which mode did you use?

[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, michali said:

AF is useless in a situation like the one in the image below. In post#15  Sillbeers mentions  "Desensitising Depth in the AF menu profiles". Haven't had an opportunity to try this out yet, I'm not too to sure how effective this would be. It may be easier & faster to switch to MF and guaranteed to nail focus.

Paul, I hear what you're saying about wanting to switch quickly. What about the suggestions in Mark & Tom's posts #6 & #7, assigning this to the front button?

 

My experience is only with the SL, where you cannot assign a toggle AF-MF action to any button - if you can do that with the SL2, that is good news. Also on the SL, back button focusing is only on the joystick button - I'm not sure it would help me to have it assignable to other buttons, but it might.

[michali]

35 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Spot or Field AF Mode should work fine for this. Which mode did you use?

AF mode was set to Spot, shot in  MF.

[thighslapper]

10 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Buy an S1R. Has a nice switch, in exactly the right spot. I use it all the time when I travel.

Gordon

Correct.

I'm afraid to say, that after a few weeks with the SL2, the S1R is a far better camera as far as ergonomics is concerned and image quality is basically identical. 

If it wasn't for better very low light metering, and a >60 sec exposure limit, the SL2 would be on eBay. 

Some of the issues I have MAY be solved with firmware revisions ..... IF Leica listen to users, which it has been slow and reluctant to do in the past.

[Exodies]

1 hour ago, thighslapper said:

<snip>
IF Leica listen to users, which it has been slow and reluctant to do in the past.

Users are slow to realise their ideas are based on insufficient data, a single mind unaware of its own peccadilloes, and common or garden wackiness.

Take my request for a circular sensor, for example.

[PeterGA]

1 hour ago, Exodies said:

Users are slow to realise their ideas are based on insufficient data, a single mind unaware of its own peccadilloes, and common or garden wackiness.

Take my request for a circular sensor, for example.

I think you'd have your circular chip if someone could figure out what to do with the 4 arced redundant "(almost) triangles" - the left over bits - 4 orphaned bits of this and that....

[Exodies]

My dream is to have hexagonal cells. The four triangles can be left empty silicone for all I care

[SrMi]

8 hours ago, thighslapper said:

Correct.

I'm afraid to say, that after a few weeks with the SL2, the S1R is a far better camera as far as ergonomics is concerned and image quality is basically identical. 

If it wasn't for better very low light metering, and a >60 sec exposure limit, the SL2 would be on eBay. 

Some of the issues I have MAY be solved with firmware revisions ..... IF Leica listen to users, which it has been slow and reluctant to do in the past.

I don't see it that way. My SL2 is much more used than my S1R, which I currently pick when I need a feature that SL2 does not have (yet?). The main Leica advantage is that it does not try to be the "jack of all trades, master of none." If I were unlucky to have to pick only one camera, it would be SL2 instead of S1R.

I prefer the ergonomics (e.g., EVF/LCD modes, AF-ON/joystick, menu structure, size) of SL2. Nonetheless, S1R is one of the best cameras available on the market, IMO.

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[Alistairm]

On 12/26/2019 at 8:57 AM, thighslapper said:

Correct.

I'm afraid to say, that after a few weeks with the SL2, the S1R is a far better camera as far as ergonomics is concerned and image quality is basically identical. 

If it wasn't for better very low light metering, and a >60 sec exposure limit, the SL2 would be on eBay. 

Some of the issues I have MAY be solved with firmware revisions ..... IF Leica listen to users, which it has been slow and reluctant to do in the past.

Funnily enough, as a big fan of the S1R (and I’m keeping mine), I prefer shooting with the SL2. For me it feels better in hand, somehow manages to feel smaller and I much prefer the menu setup. The S1R has the buttons in all the right places, but with all of the buttons and the articulating rear screen, it feels clunky to me compared to the S1R. Both are wonderful cameras,  but if I could only keep one it would be the Leica. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

7 hours ago, Alistairm said:

Funnily enough, as a big fan of the S1R (and I’m keeping mine), I prefer shooting with the SL2. For me it feels better in hand, somehow manages to feel smaller and I much prefer the menu setup. The S1R has the buttons in all the right places, but with all of the buttons and the articulating rear screen, it feels clunky to me compared to the S1R. Both are wonderful cameras,  but if I could only keep one it would be the Leica. 

I really like my SL2 as well and in many ways prefer it to the S1R. But I don’t know if I would keep it in preference to the Panasonic. If leica can get Fotos working on my Android phone then I might not complain about the fixed screen. If I could assign the play button so I didn’t need to lower the camera from my eye I might not complain about all the buttons being on the left.

*IF* Leica had kept the original button layout I’d definitely prefer the SL2, but they didn’t and I lean slightly to the Panasonic overall. However, I’ll almost certainly use the SL2 more because of the 30 minute exposure time.

Gordon