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SL2 EVF Mag issue... (Digiloyd)

Donzo98

By Donzo98
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jaapv

jaapv

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1 hour ago, Donzo98 said:

OK... you can choose to believe or not. @photonc has tested all 3 bodies at the same time... currently has the SL2 (rented), and owns the other 2.  I trust him... you don't have to. Digiloyd lying as well??

Why would anyone make this up??

 

If it is Digiloyd we can be fairly sure that he has made some basic blunder.

Fail #1 = thinking that focus peaking is a precise focus aid.

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thighslapper
thighslapper

Exactly what I pointed out. I feel this is a big fuss about nothing and exactly what you would expect from taking a tiny bit of the image on the sensor and sticking it on a high resolution screen to v

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photonc

photonc

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19 minutes ago, jaapv said:

If it is Digiloyd we can be fairly sure that he has made some basic blunder.

Fail #1 = thinking that focus peaking is a precise focus aid.

This isn't a focus peaking issue. If you magnify for MF above 4X, the results on the S1R and SL2 become painterly, wormy, aliased. I have used EVF's from many other manufactures. Even with lower evf specifications, they perform significantly better when magnified for critical focus. I am literally holding all three cameras and results in person are clearly evident. I hope Leica takes note.    

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Donzo98

Donzo98

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1 minute ago, photonc said:

This isn't a focus peaking issue. If you magnify for MF above 4X, the results on the S1R and SL2 become painterly, wormy, aliased. I have used EVF's from many other manufactures and many with lower evf specifications, they perform significantly better when magnified for critical focus. I am literally holding all three cameras and results in person are clearly evident. I hope Leica takes note.    

This objective enough for you guys?? 

All 3 cameras in hand... 

May not be an issue for all... but it is for some. 

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NRKstudio

NRKstudio

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1 hour ago, LeicaR10 said:

Donzo98,  Yes we did for testing.  We will see if the scenes require it when we get out in the field and report back.  As for Lloyd, I use to subscribe long ago to his site.  He became a very, very biased and IMO anti-Leica reviewer.  We found his "testing" flawed and conclusions even more flawed.  So, we do our own testing and read Reid's and Jono's reviews.  I found those more valuable and insightful than anything Lloyd wrote.  Just our experience.  For us, proof is in use.  If I have real issues, I let Stephan Schulz know directly.  So far...Alles ist gut! r/ Mark

So I think with the SL2, the issue is that in magnified live view, the resolution drops wayyyy down.  This happens with manual focus lenses and with AF summicrons.  

With MF lenses, the resolution is so low it is in fact harder to nail focus.  It isn’t any where close to as accurate as the new Sony A7r4 that has the exact same OLED EVF panel.  It’s not impossible on the SL2 though.  

With AF Leica lenses, the SL2 (which I own and just tried this before I wrote this) will not let you focus with a cross hair or other spot focus tool in magnified live view.  The magnification disappears as soon as you half press the shutter with AF lenses.  This pretty much disqualifies the use of magnified live view focusing, it just doesn’t work.  Hopefully it’s a setting I screwed up, but it seems like Leica did this because of all the reviewers (including DPreview) that said the gross loss in resolution in magnified live view when focusing.  
 

It is similar to the issue when focusing in AF-C mode, the EVF exhibits huge loss in resolution that is very distracting and misleading as to whether you are in focus or not.   
 

disclaimer: hopefully it’s just my lack of expertise with the firmware, but im being very optimistic. 

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Donzo98

Donzo98

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13 minutes ago, Artin said:

Here is a reason for you .. It is the finest Mirrorless full frame Camera you can get, and the 24-90 is just superb 

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Beautiful pic  :)  Yes... the 24-90 is superb.

i have the 16-35, 50 APO SL and 90-280. Sold the 24-90... 

But... my S1 can do that too :) 

The SL glass is the best... and the reason I’m staying with L mount for sure. 

 

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gpwhite

gpwhite

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3 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

Hmmm... Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the issue, but I havent noticed any problems with my copy of the X1DII, at least at 50% mag in what I'l admit is relatively limited experience. Given the conversations, I just tried shooting this very screen and had zero issues with the result. Examined in LR. Curious.

Good to read!  Maybe Lensrentals got an early bad one (my first X1D was a total disaster that had to rebuilt in Gothenburg). I shot my 65mm at 100% zoom, which pops crisply on the X1D EVF.

I also see that Jono found no problem with MF on M lenses with the SL2 proto he worked with in his review. My fingers are crossed.

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gpwhite

gpwhite

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3 hours ago, LeicaR10 said:

Donzo98,  Yes we did for testing.  We will see if the scenes require it when we get out in the field and report back.  As for Lloyd, I use to subscribe long ago to his site.  He became a very, very biased and IMO anti-Leica reviewer.  We found his "testing" flawed and conclusions even more flawed.  So, we do our own testing and read Reid's and Jono's reviews.  I found those more valuable and insightful than anything Lloyd wrote.  Just our experience.  For us, proof is in use.  If I have real issues, I let Stephan Schulz know directly.  So far...Alles ist gut! r/ Mark

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thighslapper

thighslapper

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Well this looks to me entirely a firmware issue ....... the EVF image is just a rendered jpg and they clearly have not set the sharpening and contrast high enough to give a crisp image when magnified. 

It's not a sensor, EVF or optical issue, so it's no big deal and I would have thought relatively simple to fix. 

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Chaemono

Chaemono

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Ok, I can confirm.  Focus peaking doesn’t work with the 75 Noctilux.  But magnification works for pin point accurate focusing.  Put the EVF refresh rate to 120 B/s, use maximum magnification if not close to the subject and put the EV dial to +2/3 in order to get a bright enough magnified image if necessary.  After half pressing the shutter, dial back the EV to a desired value, and take the shot.  Works like a charm.  I’ll show some pictures later. 
 

Edit - when reviewing the pictures on the back display, use a profile with focus peaking. This, on the other hand, works perfectly for assessing if the focus point was where one intended it to be. 😁

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snooper

snooper

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Looks like the EVF is using a jpg compression of whatever the sensor sees. If you switch ON jpg recording, you'll see in the EVF whatever setting you decided on. Like if your jpg is set to B&W, the EVF will show B&W.

We are almost in 2020, why did Leica use jpg instead of HEIF / HEIC ? That would give much better results in terms of speed and resolution not only at shooting stage in the EVF, but also to build up previews in Fotos, etc, and it would be a big step forward that so far only Apple and Canon seem to be able to implement in their gear...

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Chaemono

Chaemono

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb snooper:

Looks like the EVF is using a jpg compression of whatever the sensor sees. If you switch ON jpg recording, you'll see in the EVF whatever setting you decided on. Like if your jpg is set to B&W, the EVF will show B&W.

We are almost in 2020, why did Leica use jpg instead of HEIF / HEIC ? That would give much better results in terms of speed and resolution not only at shooting stage in the EVF, but also to build up previews in Fotos, etc, and it would be a big step forward that so far only Apple and Canon seem to be able to implement in their gear...

Yeees, thank you.  Focus peaking works.  If you're using M lenses on the SL2, you'll have to shoot DNG AND JPEG.  I keep telling myself now that the EVF looks crispier, too.  So, I'll keep that setting.  BTW, the 75 Nocitlux shows tons of purple and green fringing on the SL2.  It's as if the camera is missing that profile to apply the proper corrections.

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BernardC

BernardC

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4 hours ago, snooper said:

We are almost in 2020, why did Leica use jpg instead of HEIF / HEIC ?

Probably because HEIF is not very well supported, and it doesn't provide an advantage over JPEG visually. You might save a few bytes compared to JPEG, but then you wouldn't be able to share your images, or view them on your TV. The video-like features of HEIF have no value to stills, nor do the web optimizations.

JPEG is a format that "just works," on almost any device. I appreciate the advantages of HEIF for massive server farms, where small savings in storage and bandwidth lead to increases in margins (partly by pushing some processing costs onto end-users). It makes a lot of sense in that situation.

What would be great is a JPEG-2000 format which supports HDR and different colour spaces.

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gpwhite

gpwhite

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Very helpful posts from #32 onwards. This explains why several bodies with higher res EVF , including Hasselblad, evidence the degraded image under magnification AND why Jono did not see it with his proto SL2. Jono posted that he essentially shoots only .jpg.

So until Leica gets around to a firmware fix (perhaps after it rolls out its wristwatch line 😩), one needs to shoot RAW+JPEG with the SL2, just to get the MF magnification function running correctly...?

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nicci78

nicci78

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Jono said that he shot DNG + jpg. DNG written in the first card and jpg on the second card.

Fast selection with jpg imported into Lightroom for iPad. Then shared as fast as possible. Then later on he will select the best DNG to work with. 
Nice workflow to overcome the huge file size. 

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