Would you now buy an SL for $3500 or an SL2 for $6000?

[Raid Amin]

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The SL may soon drop in value to $3000, while the new SL2 costs $6000.

Is the SL2 worth the extra $3000 beyond the cost of a used SL?

Users seem to claim that the SL is "solid". 

This is a nightmare! How can anyone choose well here?

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[digitalfx]

Seems so based on the waiting list at my dealer alone, which is over 90. But only you can decide which choice is right for you.
But why a nightmare?...options are good.

[hillavoider]

I would wait until the SL2 is finally released to see if they have fixed the point of focus flicking issue and if they have added face and eye detect because right now face detect hardly works and eye detect is just a lie, if these issues aren't fixed it could be a lemon 

that being said, a lot of SL's may come onto the market and could be very popular with people wanting to use M lenses and not have to shell out silly money for a M10 so the value may hold up

I didn't help did I  

Edited November 21, 2019 by hillavoider

[CVickery]

I don't know how you should choose, but I bought a used SL a few weeks ago. I knew the SL2 was coming and had a rough expectation about the price and features, but I decided that the SL was still a good fit for my particular needs (reasonable performance of M-mount lenses on a mirrorless body). While the SL2 is very desirable, the extra $3k in my pocket is significant. I'm content with my decision, even with all the hype about the SL2...YMMV

[david strachan]

I wouldn't buy an SL or later model.  Too big, too heavy, too expensive. Then you have to buy lenses as well.

Even the M8 through to the M10's are too heavy...but i put up with it because i enjoy other aspects of the camera series.

 

All cameras have good and bad...just depends what you want to compromise and the trade-offs.

...

[leicameech]

6 minutes ago, Raid Amin said:

The SL may soon drop in value to $3000, while the new SL2 costs $6000.

Is the SL2 worth the extra $3000 beyond the cost of a used SL?

Users seem to claim that the SL is "solid". 

This is a nightmare! How can anyone choose well here?

I wouldn't say it's twice the camera the SL 601 is, but it's got some real upgrades -- namely the stabilization (which works great), improved EVF, double the resolution, ability to turn off long exposure noise reduction, improved ergonomics, and overall refined body (less sharp edges, all buttons black except shutter release/lens release etc.). Also the video features are pretty robust (not sure if that's important to you), but the first SL is also good for video. It's still got GPS too, which is missing on the SL2.

 

 

 

[sillbeers15]

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18 minutes ago, hillavoider said:

I would wait until the SL2 is finally released to see if they have fixed the point of focus flicking issue and if they have added face and eye detect because right now face detect hardly works and eye detect is just a lie, if these issues aren't fixed it could be a lemon 

that being said, a lot of SL's may come onto the market and could be very popular with people wanting to use M lenses and not have to shell out silly money for a M10 so the value may hold up

I didn't help did I  

I’m not sure where you’re coming from but your perception of the Autofocus system on SL/SL2 is nothing but a joke.

Have you ever thought of that you will never get anything your looking for here and it will be nothing but a waste of your time? 

The Autofocus capability of the SL is nothing to shout about but it has worked for me over the past 4 years. Certainly easier on focusing (AF) than my M10. 

For a start, the SL’s Autofocus is not slow on focus. Definite not an issue for any stills. It struggles getting focus on small subject  in frame against a busy background ( tell me which camera is perfect ). Face detect works great on human subjects. Focus tracking depends very much on lighting. Hit rate is approximately 50-60% on medium drive mode. The focusing seems soft in between frames indicating not fast enough for the focusing to complete before the shutter snaps. In EVF, situation gets worse as the refresh rate cannot cope with focusing change. To me it strongly indicates more processor power is required for a faster and more frequent focuses calculations. What the CDAF is really weak is when there is a strong back light. It throws the focusing off at times and the focusing hunts.

in the SL2, all the reviews were carried out in preproduction firmware. Other than the few beta testers that had the camera for extensive period of time, most had the camera for a couple of hours and made conclusions. Most could not even take good pictures not to mention structured test or comparison test. Most reviews just tell if the camera could take snap shots and concludes with reviewers preconceived opinion.

what you and I should look forward on AF evaluation on SL2 is only after 100 to 200 shots taken on a single AF function evaluation either on face detect and focus tracking before any conclusion is formed.

[Jeff S]

Regarding the OP,  this situation exists, in varying degrees, every time a new camera is introduced by Leica, or by most any other brand. And just like any other time, new cameras will be bought, old models will be bought, sold or traded, and used cameras will eventually change hands.  Still others will stand by and keep the forum active with thoughts and wishes for the next new thing. In other words, individual decisions will vary, covering the full spectrum of possibilities and rationales.

When that doesn’t happen, when new product doesn’t sell, obviously companies eventually die.  So let’s hope the SL2 sells well, and thereby keeps all the downstream effects in motion.  So far, the signs are good, but we won’t really know until cameras are in hand and longer term user experiences, and reliability assessments, become known.

No nightmare.  Just business as usual.

Jeff

[m9photo]

If you have the fund to get SL 2 then SL 2 is better option, consider IBIS/47MP and the ability to turn off LENR (for me this is somewhat crucial as I do lots of long exposure).

Other than that SL should be sufficient and even more for any type of photography in general.

[darylgo]

SL, if it's good enough for your shooting.  SL2 if you want or need it.  Warranty aside.

[hillavoider]

3 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

I’m not sure where you’re coming from but your perception of the Autofocus system on SL/SL2 is nothing but a joke.

Have you ever thought of that you will never get anything your looking for here and it will be nothing but a waste of your time? 

The Autofocus capability of the SL is nothing to shout about but it has worked for me over the past 4 years. Certainly easier on focusing (AF) than my M10. 

For a start, the SL’s Autofocus is not slow on focus. Definite not an issue for any stills. It struggles getting focus on small subject  in frame against a busy background ( tell me which camera is perfect ). Face detect works great on human subjects. Focus tracking depends very much on lighting. Hit rate is approximately 50-60% on medium drive mode. The focusing seems soft in between frames indicating not fast enough for the focusing to complete before the shutter snaps. In EVF, situation gets worse as the refresh rate cannot cope with focusing change. To me it strongly indicates more processor power is required for a faster and more frequent focuses calculations. What the CDAF is really weak is when there is a strong back light. It throws the focusing off at times and the focusing hunts.

in the SL2, all the reviews were carried out in preproduction firmware. Other than the few beta testers that had the camera for extensive period of time, most had the camera for a couple of hours and made conclusions. Most could not even take good pictures not to mention structured test or comparison test. Most reviews just tell if the camera could take snap shots and concludes with reviewers preconceived opinion.

what you and I should look forward on AF evaluation on SL2 is only after 100 to 200 shots taken on a single AF function evaluation either on face detect and focus tracking before any conclusion is formed.

DPreview had the camera for days and shot enough to conclude the AF was worse then the Panasonic which Leica rebranded! LOL 

i had one for 20 minutes the other day and it was exactly as they described - not good 

anyway I really hope they address the flicking focus point that’s really disappointing .... almost as disappointing as the influencers so called reviews just skipping the AF issues altogether  on this site. 
 

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by hillavoider

[sillbeers15]

41 minutes ago, hillavoider said:

DPreview had the camera for days and shot enough to conclude the AF was worse then the Panasonic which Leica rebranded! LOL 

i had one for 20 minutes the other day and it was exactly as they described - not good 

anyway I really hope they address the flicking focus point that’s really disappointing .... almost as disappointing as the influencers so called reviews just skipping the AF issues altogether  on this site. 
 

 

I will do an extensive review of the AF tracking for myself. I do not believe Chris from DP Review knows the camera better than I do after using the SL for 4 years. My SL almost only shot with native SL lenses as I only very occasionally bring on my M59Noctilux and M21lux and use them on my SL. I am a believer that M lenses are best on M bodies (M10). I do shoot birds in flight, fighter jets over air shows and F1 night race with my 90-280 handheld. If I can get good shots on SL with 50-60% focus sharp hit rate from my SL, I would expect the SL2 to do better unless there is no AF development over the past four years by Leica Engineers.

I shot on the demo SLs for some 30mins and am surprised to find them tracking worse than SL. Something is not adding up. 

I’ll use my own camera bought by my own money to do AF trials.

[otto.f]

3 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Regarding the OP,  this situation exists, in varying degrees, every time a new camera is introduced by Leica

Although someone on the German part of the forum said the other day that here is a quite unique situation in Leica history of new camera’s. He stated that never before a top segment Leica camera dropped so much in price when its successor came and he even dared to predict that this will not happen again so soon. I don’t know if that’s true, look for instance at the S006, but that is more in a niche market than the SL. I do think that there is a unique point: last chance to get a 24Mp FF camera if you’re not enthusiastic about many Mp’s on your slow CaptureOne or other slow postprocessing app’s

Edited November 21, 2019 by otto.f

[hillavoider]

12 minutes ago, sillbeers15 said:

I will do an extensive review of the AF tracking for myself. I do not believe Chris from DP Review knows the camera better than I do after using the SL for 4 years. My SL almost only shot with native SL lenses as I only very occasionally bring on my M59Noctilux and M21lux and use them on my SL. I am a believer that M lenses are best on M bodies (M10). I do shoot birds in flight, fighter jets over air shows and F1 night race with my 90-280 handheld. If I can get good shots on SL with 50-60% focus sharp hit rate from my SL, I would expect the SL2 to do better unless there is no AF development over the past four years by Leica Engineers.

I shot on the demo SLs for some 30mins and am surprised to find them tracking worse than SL. Something is not adding up. 

I’ll use my own camera bought by my own money to do AF trials.

Thanks in advance I’d really like to know how it goes with final firmware 

[frame-it]

though when i played with the SL2 for over an hour the only time AF had issues was with this shot..and that was only because of the reflections on the glass...but still  managed to nail focus on the guys face on the 2nd try.

 

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Edited November 21, 2019 by frame-it

[thighslapper]

4 hours ago, leicameech said:

I wouldn't say it's twice the camera the SL 601 is, but it's got some real upgrades -- namely the stabilization (which works great), improved EVF, double the resolution, ability to turn off long exposure noise reduction, improved ergonomics, and overall refined body (less sharp edges, all buttons black except shutter release/lens release etc.). Also the video features are pretty robust (not sure if that's important to you), but the first SL is also good for video. It's still got GPS too, which is missing on the SL2.

I think unless you have used a camera with these features (like the S1R, which I have used for the last 8 months) you do not realise just how much they extend the usability and flexibility of the SL. My old SL was not touched after I got an S1R and the SL holds no attraction at all for me now. There are also some useful features and ergonomics that the SL2 lacks over the S1R so I anticipate the SL2 may in fact end up as a secondary rather than primary body ......😕

[leicameech]

3 minutes ago, thighslapper said:

I think unless you have used a camera with these features (like the S1R, which I have used for the last 8 months) you do not realise just how much they extend the usability and flexibility of the SL. My old SL was not touched after I got an S1R and the SL holds no attraction at all for me now. There are also some useful features and ergonomics that the SL2 lacks over the S1R so I anticipate the SL2 may in fact end up as a secondary rather than primary body ......😕

The S1R is certainly a great camera too, no doubt about it. Worth considering, if you're reading this OP. Especially for the price, which is in the neighborhood of what the SL goes for used. The SL2 is uniform in its menu navigation and user interface with the other German Leicas (except for the TL2), which I like. It's familiar. Coming from a Q, and now a Q2, I could use the SL2 right away when I picked it up. Navigating the S1R is very much like using any other Panasonic, like the GH4 or even the D-Lux or C-Lux from Leica, which I don't enjoy as much. There are plenty of useful things on the outside of the S1R body, but after shooting with the Q cameras for 2+ years I've gotten used to the simplicity. Value -- S1R and S1 are pretty hard to beat. Just comes down to busier or simpler ergonomics, both of which have their pros and cons for individual shooters. I'm no pro, but if I was I'd be more comfortable doing a paid shoot tomorrow with an SL2 than the S1R because I feel like I already know exactly how to operate it. Now if only I could take nice photographs too.. 

[Mr.Q]

Pros of the SL2: Major improvements are 47MP, IBIS, and video features. Better EVF/LCD, but hardly noticeable because the original was class-leading already. AF performance to me felt the same as the SL1. Fast and zippy AF-S but unreliable AF-C.

Pros of the SL1: Half the price. Much better controls and haptics (It blows my mind why Leica abandoned the 4-button layout. Definitely a step back imo) Very subjective, but to me the SL feels a bit more solid.

Other things to note:  The SL 24-90 provides 3.5 stops of OIS (not quite the 5.5 stops of the SL2) which may be sufficient for most of what you shoot. LENR can not be turned off with the SL1 so if you're into a lot of landscape or astro, that may be a consideration. Battery life I'd suspect would be slightly worse with the SL2 due to IBIS and larger files. 

I decided to pass on the SL2. I handled it and it doesn't excite me enough (like the SL1 or X1D did) to justify the purchase. YMMV. 

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[otto.f]

1 hour ago, Mr.Q said:

Pros of the SL2: Major improvements are 47MP, IBIS, and video features. Better EVF/LCD, but hardly noticeable because the original was class-leading already. AF performance to me felt the same as the SL1. Fast and zippy AF-S but unreliable AF-C.

Pros of the SL1: Half the price. Much better controls and haptics (It blows my mind why Leica abandoned the 4-button layout. Definitely a step back imo) Very subjective, but to me the SL feels a bit more solid.

Other things to note:  The SL 24-90 provides 3.5 stops of OIS (not quite the 5.5 stops of the SL2) which may be sufficient for most of what you shoot. LENR can not be turned off with the SL1 so if you're into a lot of landscape or astro, that may be a consideration. Battery life I'd suspect would be slightly worse with the SL2 due to IBIS and larger files. 

I decided to pass on the SL2. I handled it and it doesn't excite me enough (like the SL1 or X1D did) to justify the purchase. YMMV. 

Nice that you lay a bottom under the price reduction that’s going on for the SL in the market 😊👍🏼

Edited November 21, 2019 by otto.f

[Jeff S]

6 hours ago, otto.f said:

Although someone on the German part of the forum said the other day that here is a quite unique situation in Leica history of new camera’s. He stated that never before a top segment Leica camera dropped so much in price when its successor came and he even dared to predict that this will not happen again so soon. I don’t know if that’s true, look for instance at the S006, but that is more in a niche market than the SL. I do think that there is a unique point: last chance to get a 24Mp FF camera if you’re not enthusiastic about many Mp’s on your slow CaptureOne or other slow postprocessing app’s

Welcome, even Leica, to industry times.  See Hasselblad XCD at $9000, and XCDii at $5750. Either adapt or get crushed.

Jeff