"Vader" Certainly Isn't Any Prettier

[Chaemono]

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This German review of the Lumix S Pro 70-200 agrees that the lens does not have enough resolving power for a 47 MPx sensor:  https://www.digitalkamera.de/Zubehör-Test/Testbericht_Panasonic_S_Pro_70-200_mm_F4_OIS_S-R70200E/11357.aspx?page=2

Here’s a translation of some excerpts on IQ:

“The resolution at 50 percent contrast reaches its maximum with 72 pairs of lines per millimeter (lp/mm), which is a good resolution, but is far from outstanding given 47 megapixels on the image sensor. [...]
In addition, [...] the MTF charts are also interesting.  At the end of the day, you want to know where to achieve optimal results when you need them and where to compromise. In the image center, the lens reaches its maximum resolution at F5.6 with 69 lp/mm at 70 mm, 72 lp/mm at 120 mm, and 70 lp/mm at 200 mm focal length.  Wide open it is 58 and 60 lp/mm for the short and medium range, while at the long end it is only 51 lp/mm. [...] Beyond F5,6 diffraction already sets in, whereas even at F11 62 lp/mm are resolved at the 70 and the 120 mm focal lengths, 57 lp/mm at the long end. 

Thus, while the overall resolution is slightly weaker at the long end, the short focal length is inferior in the corners.  Here 41 lp/mm are reached wide open, the maximum is just under 45 lp/mm for F8 and F11, meaning that the corner resolution does not improve as the lens is stopped down.  At 120 and 200 millimeters, the edge resolution wide open is a good 47 lp/mm. Stopping the lens down, resolution initially only rises at 120 mm to 52 lp/mm and this resolution is maintained up to F11. At 200 mm, on the other hand, the 52 lp/mm maximum is only reached at F11. Overall, the edge resolution is thus significantly lower than in the image center, up to 35 percent fewer line pairs per millimeter. So, here the lens does not really shine.”

The review concludes that the lens has very little vignetting and distortion, but shows some color fringing and doesn’t have good enough resolution, particularly in the corners.

[ron777]

1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

Beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder, as is the feel in hand, size, placement of buttons, functionality and menu architecture.  I don’t mind the brutalism of the SL - it reflects the clarity of the user interface, and the output is superb.  I’ve had one since release, and barely given its looks a second thought - it functions so well as a photographers’ camera, in my experience.

I saw no need to explore the GFX100 beyond its initial looks taking my breath away!

Conversely, the T and M based cameras and the X1D II looked so good to me, I decided I would just work out how to make them function.  Not so much the D800e - its looks didn’t appeal, but I had hope for its functionality (as a long term Nikon user), but I was wrong ...

In hand, the GFX100 fits my hand like a glove. It’s the integral battery grip that gives the camera its overgrown appearance, however, it balances well and of course the images are spectacular. Side by sides , my S1R with SL 75mm attached actually feels (haven’t weighed them) heavier than the GFX with a GF 45mm onboard. 

That said, camera esthetics were never a part of my purchase equation.

[Jeff S]

34 minutes ago, ron777 said:

In hand, the GFX100 fits my hand like a glove. It’s the integral battery grip that gives the camera its overgrown appearance...

I wonder, are there similar sentiments over the aesthetics of the Canon 1DX (or Mark ii), which seems like a similar but rounder  edge design?  Mostly I hear favorable comments as a pro workhorse, not disdain because it’s not a show horse.  

Jeff

[sillbeers15]

There are more leaked pics of SL2 now available in Leica Rumours.

The pics show 5 customisable buttons on the SL2. Two on TOP plate ( next to main dials), two in front of camera and one at the back of camera ( EVF/Rear screen dial in SL). So there is one more additional dial over SL. Old dogs just need to learn new tricks again.

p/s: User do not need to remove eye from EVF to activate the customised buttons and one can set the ‘most used’ button to the most favoured location as compared to taking your eye off the SL’s EVF to access the four buttons next to rear screen.

Edited November 5, 2019 by sillbeers15

[Jeff S]

As a much more significant design change, I wonder if the new, protruding strap lugs will be more to the satisfaction (functionally....hanging body angle) of some SL users. Less elegant, perhaps. 

Jeff

[PeterGA]

When I first saw a photograph of the SL I immediately thought that this was the best looking camera Leica have designed and made since the R9 and placed my order with my preferred dealer immediately. In use I absolutely adore the design and ease of handholding - I note with some interest that the SL2 has a slightly curved handgrip - which will be even better.

When I first heard of the Fuji GFX100 I bought a GFX50S so I could familiarise myself with Fuji ahead of the GFX100. My initial thoughts when seeing photographs of the GFX100 was that it looked strange with its two tone colour scheme. When I received my copy a few months ago - I thought that I'd prefer a one colour scheme and a standardised coating as the vertical handgrip  of the camera has a slightly different feel to the side handgrip - I wouldn't describe the GFX100 as ugly by any means.

For conversation sake I picture the SL2 (with handgrip) next to the GFX100 and for comparison sake I picture them both with their longest respective lenses attached.

As for weight of these two with these lenses attached - there is not much difference - if any.

As far as IQ goes - I wont bore anyone with the obvious.

As for shooting hand held with long lenses attached - the SL and 90-280 is very good with its lens stabilisation - the GFX100 is outstanding with lens and IBIS - in fact it is stupidly capable of making a joke of the 1/focal length guidelines.

For my purposes the long awaited SL2 has to be able to at least match the GFX100 in terms of hand held shooting - I don't expect it to be able to match the IQ - no one should. Even so - it is a major bugbear of mine that I can't get the maximum utility and amenity of the latest lighting systems to work with Leica SL - a significant drawback to studio and on location shooting in my books.

I no longer care how well or not the SL / SL2 manages to cope with M glass - it is of no matter to me what so ever- the SL glass already released ( apart from a Noctilux equivalent) is better on an SL than M is - the Fuji glass on GFX is as good as anything from anyone in resolving 100MP or less - but anyone who has been shooting for a while now going back to film days even - already knows that Fuji make outstanding glass.

For me it isn't about "can the SL2 be better than the Panasonic whatever" ...for me it is about whether I could be bothered actually maintaining any interest in Leica SL going forward.

As for criticism of GUI or PUI - I've never liked the 4x2 rear button Phase One style interface that the SL has - nor do I like the GUI/PUI of the CLK - I much prefer the old fashioned dials that Fuji offers on their cameras.

Where leica has it all over any other manufacturer is in the 'feel' of the camera in hand and high standard of industrial finish to each and every component one's hand touches. This is probably enough for me to keep my SL and a couple of lenses if I don't 'upgrade' to SL2 - but not reason enough to go goo goo eyed and full on fanboy over it.

The GFX100 is THE best camera I've ever used as far as useable hand held IQ goes - it has set a new benchmark of expectations for me as a photographer for everything except happy snaps.

 

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Edited November 5, 2019 by PeterGA

[ron777]

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2 hours ago, Jeff S said:

I wonder, are there similar sentiments over the aesthetics of the Canon 1DX (or Mark ii), which seems like a similar but rounder  edge design?  Mostly I hear favorable comments as a pro workhorse, not disdain because it’s not a show horse.  

Jeff

Good point and well said.

[ron777]

1 hour ago, PeterGA said:

When I first saw a photograph of the SL I immediately thought that this was the best looking camera Leica have designed and made since the R9 and placed my order with my preferred dealer immediately. In use I absolutely adore the design and ease of handholding - I note with some interest that the SL2 has a slightly curved handgrip - which will be even better.

When I first heard of the Fuji GFX100 I bought a GFX50S so I could familiarise myself with Fuji ahead of the GFX100. My initial thoughts when seeing photographs of the GFX100 was that it looked strange with its two tone colour scheme. When I received my copy a few months ago - I thought that I'd prefer a one colour scheme and a standardised coating as the vertical handgrip  of the camera has a slightly different feel to the side handgrip - I wouldn't describe the GFX100 as ugly by any means.

For conversation sake I picture the SL2 (with handgrip) next to the GFX100 and for comparison sake I picture them both with their longest respective lenses attached.

As for weight of these two with these lenses attached - there is not much difference - if any.

As far as IQ goes - I wont bore anyone with the obvious.

As for shooting hand held with long lenses attached - the SL and 90-280 is very good with its lens stabilisation - the GFX100 is outstanding with lens and IBIS - in fact it is stupidly capable of making a joke of the 1/focal length guidelines.

For my purposes the long awaited SL2 has to be able to at least match the GFX100 in terms of hand held shooting - I don't expect it to be able to match the IQ - no one should. Even so - it is a major bugbear of mine that I can't get the maximum utility and amenity of the latest lighting systems to work with Leica SL - a significant drawback to studio and on location shooting in my books.

I no longer care how well or not the SL / SL2 manages to cope with M glass - it is of no matter to me what so ever- the SL glass already released ( apart from a Noctilux equivalent) is better on an SL than M is - the Fuji glass on GFX is as good as anything from anyone in resolving 100MP or less - but anyone who has been shooting for a while now going back to film days even - already knows that Fuji make outstanding glass.

For me it isn't about "can the SL2 be better than the Panasonic whatever" ...for me it is about whether I could be bothered actually maintaining any interest in Leica SL going forward.

As for criticism of GUI or PUI - I've never liked the 4x2 rear button Phase One style interface that the SL has - nor do I like the GUI/PUI of the CLK - I much prefer the old fashioned dials that Fuji offers on their cameras.

Where leica has it all over any other manufacturer is in the 'feel' of the camera in hand and high standard of industrial finish to each and every component one's hand touches. This is probably enough for me to keep my SL and a couple of lenses if I don't 'upgrade' to SL2 - but not reason enough to go goo goo eyed and full on fanboy over it.

The GFX100 is THE best camera I've ever used as far as useable hand held IQ goes - it has set a new benchmark of expectations for me as a photographer for everything except happy snaps.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Wow! Couldn’t have said it better had I written the post myself. The GFX100 is by far the best camera I have ever had the good fortune to own and use. And the GF glass is, IMO, exceptional.

[sillbeers15]

2 hours ago, PeterGA said:

Even so - it is a major bugbear of mine that I can't get the maximum utility and amenity of the latest lighting systems to work with Leica SL - a significant drawback to studio and on location shooting in my books.

 

 

 

 

Ya. Agree. How smart of Hassy to use Nikon flash protocol on their X1D. How dumb for Leica to maintain proprietary.

[james.liam]

On 10/21/2019 at 3:56 PM, Tailwagger said:

In which case prices would be up 50% as  this particular 25% increase is a self inflicted wound via the Don in the form of a tariff on German optics... a part of my calculation when I decided to go with Swedish optics in the near term. 

You mean Vietnamese optics owned by Chinese, with a blonde whig on top?

Edited November 5, 2019 by james.liam

[nicci78]

7 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

The pics show 5 customisable buttons on the SL2. Two on TOP plate ( next to main dials), two in front of camera and one at the back of camera ( EVF/Rear screen dial in SL). So there is one more additional dial over SL.

Actually SL2 has exactly the same buttons and dial count. 
But it loses the possibility of long press. Losing 4 virtual additional buttons. 

You are also trading easy to reach right back row of 2 buttons for an extra tiny front one and a extra on the left back row. 
 

I still stand that SL is superior for commercial shoots. But SL2 is easier to use for first timer. But I think that we only stay a newbie the first week of use. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by nicci78

[meerec]

5 hours ago, PeterGA said:

As for criticism of GUI or PUI - I've never liked the 4x2 rear button Phase One style interface that the SL has - nor do I like the GUI/PUI of the CLK - I much prefer the old fashioned dials that Fuji offers on their cameras.

Oh you must love all those 18 buttons and dials on the back of the Fuji too. I think I counted correctly. 

[thighslapper]

10 hours ago, Chaemono said:

This German review of the Lumix S Pro 70-200 agrees that the lens does not have enough resolving power for a 47 MPx sensor:

Well, I must be blind or deluded, because in side by side tests with the 90-280 and 70-200 at various apertures I could not see any difference at all in the resulting images, save slight softness in the extreme periphery wide open with the 70-200. 

Sorry, but 'buy and try' is the only testing I trust these days. 

 

[PeterGA]

1 hour ago, meerec said:

Oh you must love all those 18 buttons and dials on the back of the Fuji too. I think I counted correctly. 

haahah you made me laugh - fair comment on all the buttons - I HATE having to learn all about buttons - but there isn't much I can do about what most people seem to want or expect to have as far as buttons go...so you know what I do?

I just ignore them !  apart from joystick  and shutter I don't use any buttons much if at all. You can set the camera up to be seriously 'dumb' if you want - I'm not smart enough and too old now to wanna get involved in buttons X how many other cameras I got to learn...meh to buttons. So don't shoot me because the apparent' majority demand such things.

Yeah Leica gets it much more right than wrong as far as less buttons go - most SL users seem to love the 4 button layout on the SL - which you can press for longer on each to access something else...NOT for me this system - too much having to remember button presses this here at that time in this way....BLEH and then when you have your eye on the viewfinder and your nose on the screen - you cant access the buttons anyway! LOL

 

[meerec]

15 minutes ago, PeterGA said:

haahah you made me laugh - fair comment on all the buttons - I HATE having to learn all about buttons - but there isn't much I can do about what most people seem to want or expect to have as far as buttons go...so you know what I do?

I just ignore them !  apart from joystick  and shutter I don't use any buttons much if at all. You can set the camera up to be seriously 'dumb' if you want - I'm not smart enough and too old now to wanna get involved in buttons X how many other cameras I got to learn...meh to buttons. So don't shoot me because the apparent' majority demand such things.

Yeah Leica gets it much more right than wrong as far as less buttons go - most SL users seem to love the 4 button layout on the SL - which you can press for longer on each to access something else...NOT for me this system - too much having to remember button presses this here at that time in this way....BLEH and then when you have your eye on the viewfinder and your nose on the screen - you cant access the buttons anyway! LOL

 

 yep, I like the current SL because even if the four buttons are there they have NO LABELS ... makes it easy to ignore or just pretend they are not there at ALL ... simplicity is key, ie if you don’t want to use them, they are almost “not there” but I do use them despite my age hahaha – anyway, I’m not a fan of the very boxy design of the SL, to me it looks ugly to this day even if I’ve had and used it since Dec 2015, and the SL2 has not improved despite the rounded edges. And the new buttons, with labels, are to me a step back. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by meerec

[PeterGA]

19 minutes ago, meerec said:

 yep, I like the current SL because even if the four buttons are there they have NO LABELS ... makes it easy to ignore or just pretend they are not there at ALL ... simplicity is key, ie if you don’t want to use them, they are almost “not there” but I do use them despite my age hahaha – anyway, I’m not a fan of the very boxy design of the SL, to me it looks ugly to this day even if I’ve had and used it since Dec 2015, and the SL2 has not improved despite the rounded edges. And the new buttons, with labels, are to me a step back. 

The best non M 35mm camera i've held in my hand and just loved every minute of using it - so good was the fit for me - was the R9 - if the SL was shovelled into that body or close it would have been perfection for me - rate that a 10/10 - the SL is about an 8/8.5 for me. 

I don't plan on selling my SL2 irrespective - it does the things I care about the most really well and I enjoy using it. 25 MP is plenty for at least half the type of photography I do.

 

PS that is my r9 in my av!

Edited November 5, 2019 by PeterGA

[meerec]

1 hour ago, PeterGA said:

was the R9

Indeed, I never used R9 myself but I always admired it. In fact, I wish Leica would put the SL into the S body (minus the optical view finder of course) -- this would have been so much better for the aesthetics in my opinion.

[PeterGA]

8 minutes ago, meerec said:

Indeed, I never used R9 myself but I always admired it. In fact, I wish Leica would put the SL into the S body (minus the optical view finder of course) -- this would have been so much better for the aesthetics in my opinion.

Yep - I liked the S body as well totally the second best from Leica - after the R9 with motordrive added of course.

[nicci78]

9 minutes ago, meerec said:

Indeed, I never used R9 myself but I always admired it. In fact, I wish Leica would put the SL into the S body (minus the optical view finder of course) -- this would have been so much better for the aesthetics in my opinion.

So true, but they stick with original design tweaked by some external Munich studio. 

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[bags27]

The SL is a lot more stylish than the Q, which has no style at all IMO--a form completely determined by function--and yet it still sells like hotcakes.