"Vader" Certainly Isn't Any Prettier

[meerec]

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38 minutes ago, bags27 said:

The SL is a lot more stylish than the Q, which has no style at all IMO--a form completely determined by function--and yet it still sells like hotcakes. 

Sure Q is selling and so SL has been selling. The point is that even Dr Kaufman admitted that SL was ugly in the famous interview with LuLa, and ... we get pretty much the same body if you ask me in SL2. Don’t get me wrong, I hated the SL design from day 1 and yet I bought it back in December 2015 right when it was released. It has served me well. I just wish it was less-ugly 😁 for example if it was sitting in a S-like body it’d be much nicer. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by meerec

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[bags27]

9 minutes ago, meerec said:

Sure Q is selling and so SL has been selling. The point is that even Dr Kaufman admitted that SL was ugly in the famous interview with LuLa, and ... we get pretty much the same body if you ask me in SL2. Don’t get me wrong, I hated the SL design from day 1 and yet I bought it back in December 2015 right when it was released. It has served me well. I just wish it was less-ugly 😁 for example if it was sitting in a S-like body it’d be much nicer. 

I don't think he said it was ugly. I believe the term he used was brutal, as in brutalist architecture. I may be wrong with the exact term, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't ugly.

And, OTOH, at the same event but to a different interviewer, he tipped his hat toward the SL: "The SL is our technology platform. This is where we innovate and where we will continue to see innovation."

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2019/07/breakfast-with-dr-andreas-kaufmann/

Edited November 5, 2019 by bags27

[meerec]

2 minutes ago, bags27 said:

don't think he said it was ugly. I believe the term he used was brutal, as in brutalist architecture. I may be wrong with the exact term, but it wasn't ugly.

Ugly is my word. He may have used a different word to the same effect, it’s not worth re-listening to the interview for me to determine what exact word he used. He mentioned an axe as well haha haha. We get pretty much the same body if you ask me!!

[scott kirkpatrick]

Style, shmile.  All I hope for is something that works well, sells like hotcakes, and keeps the lenses coming!

Edited November 5, 2019 by scott kirkpatrick

[helged]

Regarding brutality; "less brutal", "more elegant" were the statements used by Dr. Kaufmann. It could be that SL2 is slightly smoother than the SL, but the degree of smoothness depends on the eyes of the beholder. I would categorise SL2 as quite similar to SL. But that's only my interpretation of what I see...

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by helged

[bags27]

Brutalism is a recognized form of aesthetics in architecture. It spills over from buildings into other design areas, like...cars. Think: Porsche. Think: German cars.

Edited November 5, 2019 by bags27

[Jeff S]

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1 hour ago, meerec said:

Ugly is my word. He may have used a different word to the same effect, it’s not worth re-listening to the interview for me to determine what exact word he used. He mentioned an axe as well haha haha. We get pretty much the same body if you ask me!!

He said it was brutal, like cut from an axe, but that the SL2 would be more elegant.

Jeff

[johnbuckley]

1 hour ago, bags27 said:

Brutalism is a recognized form of aesthetics in architecture. It spills over from buildings into other design areas, like...cars. Think: Porsche. Think: German cars.

A misunderstanding. In re: the name Brutalism:

Despite what you might assume, brutalism doesn't get its name from its aggressively confrontational toughness or unapologetic lack of concern for comfort. It's not so named because of its savagery or vicious brutishness. The term is simply taken from béton brut, French for “raw concrete.”

_

I do wish the SL were more aesthetically appealing. The M is such a classic of German industrial design, when Steve Jobs rolled out the (beautiful) iPhone 4, he compared it to a Leica. The S is, to my eye, quite appealing: for me, too big in practice, but as industrial design, gorgeous. I quite like the look of the Q2.

The original SL does, in fact, look like it was designed with an axe. But it represents function over form.  

There are a lot of ugly cameras out there. There are a few that are aesthetically appealing, beginning with the Leica M.

Not buying an SL because it is ugly, even if the camera is ideal in the function it provides, would be unwise. The SL2 seems a little more pleasing than the original SL, simply because it seems -- from the pictures -- to be ever so slightly more narrow, which is not nothing. But I do wish it were prettier...

 

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, meerec said:

 In fact, I wish Leica would put the SL into the S body (minus the optical view finder of course) -- this would have been so much better for the aesthetics in my opinion.

In an old article (don’t recall the source), a Leica exec talked about the SL design process and revealed that participant feedback was divided, with an S type body strongly considered, but that they (now obviously) decided to go in a new direction.  

When Dr. Kaufmann said in the LuLa interview with Kevin Raber that the SL2 would be more elegant,  I thought that maybe they the S shape was back on the table.  

For me, the X1D body is elegant, and ergonomically it’s among the nicest camera bodies I’ve ever held.  Some version of that would have been my ideal.  But I won’t really know how I feel about the SL2 until it’s in hand.

Jeff

 

 

[adan]

Can someone please direct me back to the Photography Department? I seem to have stumbled into the Ladies' Accessories and Footware area.

How many great photographers built their careers on, and how many of the greatest pictures ever made were made with, this ugly, brutal duckling? https://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/f.htm

See also (since a digital camera is a computer with a lens on it): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elegance#In_mathematics

 

[Jeff S]

3 minutes ago, adan said:

Can someone please direct me back to the Photography Department? I seem to have stumbled into the Ladies' Accessories and Footware area.

 

 

The department (thread) title should have given you the clue.

Jeff

[bags27]

54 minutes ago, johnbuckley said:

A misunderstanding. In re: the name Brutalism:

Despite what you might assume, brutalism doesn't get its name from its aggressively confrontational toughness or unapologetic lack of concern for comfort. It's not so named because of its savagery or vicious brutishness. The term is simply taken from béton brut, French for “raw concrete.”

_

I do wish the SL were more aesthetically appealing. The M is such a classic of German industrial design, when Steve Jobs rolled out the (beautiful) iPhone 4, he compared it to a Leica. The S is, to my eye, quite appealing: for me, too big in practice, but as industrial design, gorgeous. I quite like the look of the Q2.

The original SL does, in fact, look like it was designed with an axe. But it represents function over form.  

There are a lot of ugly cameras out there. There are a few that are aesthetically appealing, beginning with the Leica M.

Not buying an SL because it is ugly, even if the camera is ideal in the function it provides, would be unwise. The SL2 seems a little more pleasing than the original SL, simply because it seems -- from the pictures -- to be ever so slightly more narrow, which is not nothing. But I do wish it were prettier...

 

Thanks so very much for this. But I wasn't suggesting an etymology--I didn't think that Dr. Kaufmann was referring to his SL as made of concrete. 😃 I--and I assume Dr. Kaufmann--was using it in its commonest application, which is sparse design, such as raw concrete, or anything harsh. Such as this:

Brutalism in digital design is a style that intentionally attempts to look raw, haphazard, or unadorned. It echoes early 1990s-style websites (think Craigslist and the Drudge Report). ... Both in architecture and in digital design, brutalism is seen as a reaction against artificiality and lightness

https://www.nngroup.com/articles/brutalism-antidesign/

Edited November 5, 2019 by bags27

[Jeff S]

Again, Dr Kaufmann did clarify it... brutal.... “like cut from an axe”.  In other words, sharp, angular lines, not gentle, softer contours (as the alternative S body shape early design consideration).

Jeff

[Chaemono]

IMO, the SL epitomizes the elegance of minimalist design.  I'm glad they stayed true to this philosophy with the SL2.

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[scott kirkpatrick]

4 hours ago, adan said:

How many great photographers built their careers on, and how many of the greatest pictures ever made were made with, this ugly, brutal duckling? https://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/f.htm

You're right.  The F was lovely, and it's been downhill from the FTN onward.  I had one of each, and I recall clearly the first time I tried to shoot from the audience in a nearly empty theater, during a rehearsal, bringing the action to a stop with a single shot.  We've come a long way...

Edited November 5, 2019 by scott kirkpatrick

[helged]

31 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

IMO, the SL epitomizes the elegance of minimalist design.  I'm glad they stayed true to this philosophy with the SL2.

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But where is SL2's red dot  ??? (apologise, clearly too much spare time on my side...).

Edited November 5, 2019 by helged

[Chaemono]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb Jeff S:

As a much more significant design change, I wonder if the new, protruding strap lugs will be more to the satisfaction (functionally....hanging body angle) of some SL users. Less elegant, perhaps. 

Jeff

Well observed and they removed the GPS module from the upper left corner, too.  Almost as if they needed the space.  Makes one wonder. 🤔

[bags27]

6 minutes ago, helged said:

But where is SL2's red dot  ??? (apologise, clearly too much spare time on my side...).

I thought the camera on the left was just another "original" SL with tape over the dot and the Leica name. Photos of the SL2 still have the dot and shout LEICA!!!!! , I believe.

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[Chaemono]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb helged:

But where is SL2's red dot  ??? (apologise, clearly too much spare time on my side...).

Don’t worry.  We’re all a bit delusional at this point.  😂

[Tailwagger]

 

3 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Don’t worry.  We’re all a bit delusional at this point.  😂

Thankfully the party or at least this phase of it, will end tomorrow.  Now the good stuff begins. All that speculation, month upon month, will finally run smack into reality. The elation, disappointment, breast beating and cackling, arguments and internet smackdowns... oh these are moments to live for.

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