"Vader" Certainly Isn't Any Prettier

[Donzo98]

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36 minutes ago, ron777 said:

Sir, you erroneously equate many of us with lemmings.  I fail to understand the undying loyalty many, such as yourself, have to a logo/brand.  Most of us are dedicated to image acquisition and composition, regardless of the brand name stamped on the camera's head.

Completely agree with you as usual...

I think the SL glass is the best glass ever produced... and the body the glass goes on is "more disposeable". For me... the glass far outweighs any advantage of the body (unless you need the crazy fast AF of the Sony A9). If I'm married to SL glass... It's Leica or Panasonic... and for now the Panasonic has better offerings.

Right now... the S1/S1R is the best camera available for L mount glass (in my opinion). 47mp, IBIS, faster AF, better high ISO...

Edited September 11, 2019 by Donzo98

[Donzo98]

22 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Ron, I get the impression you always take things personally. He's not equating you with a lemming,...he means thighslapper, Don, Helge, Robert, Scott, Tom,...and, yes, me. 😂

I like lemmings... they're cute

[nicci78]

27 minutes ago, ron777 said:

I guess you could say that the three cameras stacked together are "huge."  But side by side, the S1R is not "huge" when compared to the current SL. Slightly larger, yes, but it is not gargantuan.  Is it heavier? yes, but there are more goodies within.

Here is a size comparison:https://www.apotelyt.com/compare-camera/leica-sl-vs-panasonic-s1r

 

You know two images on a web sites can be deceiving. 

But holding the two cameras next to each other is a different story. 

The S1R makes the SL feels like a small camera. 

But add the 24-90 and the SL become unbearable 

Of course, by himself the S1R is too heavy. 

[Donzo98]

2 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

You know two images on a web sites can be deceiving. 

But holding the two cameras next to each other is a different story. 

The S1R makes the SL feels like a small camera. 

But add the 24-90 and the SL become unbearable 

Of course, by himself the S1R is too heavy. 

I don't agree... the S1R body doesn't feel too heavy or too big compared to the SL.

It's the GIANT glass that makes them both unwieldy.

[Chaemono]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb Donzo98:

I like lemmings... they're cute

Let’s make a bet. No matter how hard you try to resist, you will cave in. If I lose, I have to always ‘like’ what you post. If you lose, I get one free brain surgery. 😂

[ron777]

47 minutes ago, Donzo98 said:

I like lemmings... they're cute

It had appeared that op was painting with a broad brush. Sorry for the misunderstanding 

[ron777]

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30 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Let’s make a bet. No matter how hard you try to resist, you will cave in. If I lose, I have to always ‘like’ what you post. If you lose, I get one free brain surgery. 😂

How about the brain surgery first so you can be compelled to always agree, LOL 

[NicholasT]

6 minutes ago, ron777 said:

How about the brain surgery first so you can be compelled to always agree, LOL 

+1 Classic

Now that was funny!!

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Chaemono said:

I can name seven users of this forum who bought an S1R/S1: thighslapper, Scott, Helge, Don, Robert, Tom, me. Looks like competition to me. 

I sold my beloved SL for S1R , kept the SL 24-90 and got the 50 1.4 S Pro and I am happy

[Chaemono]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb wizard:

Dream on.

The SL2 has IBIS but the body is too slim for the S1R version. Therefore, either Panasonic supplied Leica with their next gen IBIS, or Leica licensed it from somewhere else.

[Tailwagger]

4 hours ago, Chaemono said:

They are competing for the same FF L-mount users now. Would they still license better tech to Leica before they get to use it in their own FF cameras? 

Perhaps because they know that Leica will charge double for it and they can easily come along and undercut it on price. 😉

[thighslapper]

59 minutes ago, Donzo98 said:

Right now... the S1/S1R is the best camera available for L mount glass (in my opinion). 47mp, IBIS, faster AF, better high ISO...

Correct ...... and the S1R + 75/2 SL produces image quality that probably beats anything FF has to offer from any other lens/body combo.

The S1R and the SL excel ergonomically by taking different approaches ..... multiple very well placed and thought out buttons versus a minimal but customisable interface. Personally I find both to be perfectly acceptable solutions which quickly become intuitive. 

I don't buy any of the 'too clinical rendering' argument and the DR available from the S1R sensor is remarkable, even with 47mpx.

Much as I prefer the way the SL handles, the S1R is just too much of an all round improvement to ignore ..... and that's the issue with the SL2 .... Leica need to improve it on so many fronts to keep even level with the competition that it's going to be a big ask. 

I'd prefer a big red dot on my camera but Lumix will do fine if Leica fail to address some fundamental issues. They can get away with middle of the road technology with the M and Q because they are niche cameras that offer something unique, but there is nowhere to hide with a 'Flagship' digital FF that is meant to be a showcase for what Leica can do. 

Everything depends on what is actually inside and what it can and can't do ...... Then I'll sell my other kidney to buy one. 

 

[NicholasT]

14 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

The SL2 has IBIS but the body is too slim for the S1R version. Therefore, either Panasonic supplied Leica with their next gen IBIS, or Leica licensed it from somewhere else.

I agree. The more I think about it the more it seems inconceivable that Leica would introduce SL2 without IBIS.

So only real open question is how big/heavy is the camera and what's the source of their IBIS solution. If camera comes in at around 750g I couldn't care less about the source.

750g SL2 with IBIS paired with either SL F2 lens or some of the new introductions by Sigma like the 45mm 2.8 etc is a camera that I would gladly pay a premium for. 

[Tailwagger]

1 hour ago, Donzo98 said:

I think the SL glass is the best glass ever produced... and the body the glass goes on is "more disposeable". For me... the glass far outweighs any advantage of the body...

Indeed. Only fools buy into a system on the basis of the body.  I'm already convinced I need some L-glass, but I've yet to be convinced I need an SL2. Perhaps foreshadowing my lemming status, I did state a few pages back in this or the other thread, that I look forward to Jono convincing me as to why I do need to have an SL2 over a S1R.  He's a clever one, that Jono, but this is shaping up to be a bit of a challenge.

[Donzo98]

1 hour ago, Chaemono said:

Let’s make a bet. No matter how hard you try to resist, you will cave in. If I lose, I have to always ‘like’ what you post. If you lose, I get one free brain surgery. 😂

I will not make that bet

You seem to know more than you are letting on... but... WE SHALL SEE.

[bags27]

8 minutes ago, Tailwagger said:

Indeed. Only fools buy into a system on the basis of the body.  I'm already convinced I need some L-glass, but I've yet to be convinced I need an SL2. Perhaps foreshadowing my lemming status, I did state a few pages back in this or the other thread, that I look forward to Jono convincing me as to why I do need to have an SL2 over a S1R.  He's a clever one, that Jono, but this is shaping up to be a bit of a challenge.

+1. If so, I'll be right in line behind you at the Arlington Street store....

[Radek]

I know that this is about SL2... but many compares to S1R. For me I will be disappointed a little if SL2 will be only rebranded S1R. Key point of my post is about sigma fp. Every body compares SL and s1. But if we need small body, sigma is a solution.... fp + 45 mm f2.8 is a perfect travel/walk around combo.... 

[nicci78]

FP is just a camera for video, not still, not really. Too small to be usable for still. 

But absolutely perfect as a video one. 

Future sigma still camera will the Foveon one in 2020

Edited September 11, 2019 by nicci78

[Donzo98]

9 minutes ago, Radek said:

I know that this is about SL2... but many compares to S1R. For me I will be disappointed a little if SL2 will be only rebranded S1R. Key point of my post is about sigma fp. Every body compares SL and s1. But if we need small body, sigma is a solution.... fp + 45 mm f2.8 is a perfect travel/walk around combo.... 

FP= no interest. At least for me...

Putting even an SL F2 prime would be the wrong balance. 24-90, 50 SL would be way too front heavy. Not buying Sigma glass... call me a Leica snob... I'm spoiled by the IQ from SL glass.

My perfect travel/walk around combo is the Q2.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Donzo98

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Distagon]

13 hours ago, Chaemono said:

To assign functions like ISO and focus mode to a tiny FN knob on top or tiny front buttons in a camera that boasts fast and fluid operations if not a joke is idiotic IMO. The CL has large wheels with buttons inside that can be easily reached, not a tiny little grey FN knob that most people forget that it‘s even there.

Have you used the SL to the point of close familiarity, or just had a quick look?

Once one is used to the way one’s customised the four buttons, it is pretty intuitive.