"Vader" Certainly Isn't Any Prettier

[mgrayson3]

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I don't think I've ever seen a photo where increased resolution was in the top five things that could have improved it. The only exception is when the photographer is more excited about the higher resolution, and so goes out to shoot more. This is not a criticism of that motive! ANYTHING that get's you out shooting is in the top five!

[Jon Warwick]

IMHO, the importance of megapixels depends a lot on subject matter - eg, portraits need a lot less resolution than, say, landscapes to look good.

For example, tree branches get the digital look that is fake and plasticy much earlier on if the resolution isn’t there.

Some images too can command looking at the “whole”, before darting in and out to study “the detail” - Greg Crewdson’s work makes me do that, for example.

There’s certainly a place for high resolution - for some subjects and some print sizes.

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[lldd]

Anyone considering the current SL / SL24-90 bundle instead of the new SL?

[NicholasT]

1 hour ago, lldd said:

Anyone considering the current SL / SL24-90 bundle instead of the new SL?

Are they still available? I thought most dealers had pretty much run out of the bundle.

If available I believe the bundle is well worth it particularly if one intends to buy the 24-90 anyhow.

The SL2 rumors (so far at least) would seem to strengthen the appeal. Even if one later decides to go with SL2 there is bound to be healthy demand for SL and used prices shouldn't be that far below the net acquisition price of the SL in the bundle (net of the cost of the lens). 

[nicci78]

Bundle of SL with either Vario-Elmarit-SL  24-90 or Summilux-SL 50 are still available at 7,890€ inc. VAT. 

Leica also add the remote controller, USB 3 & HDMI cables. 

It is better now to wait the SL2 announcement before buying anything. 

Edited September 13, 2019 by nicci78

[thighslapper]

1 hour ago, nicci78 said:

Leica also add the remote controller, USB 3 & HDMI cables. 

More junk that is obviously going to become obsolete. 

[jrp]

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There are really only 3 interesting questions about the SL2 (for those with an SL)

• how well does it handle M lenses (an SL USP)
• does it have sensor stabilisation?
• is the sensor noticeably better than its predecessors (in terms of noise, esp at higher ISOs; dynamic range, colour, like the Panasonics; resolution bump, less important)

Yes, the ergonomics and appearance are considerations, the former rather more than the latter, but the Panasonic S1R + SL Summicron lenses sets a high bar.

Edited September 13, 2019 by jrp

[nicci78]

I think that SL2 will have IBIS.

Because its code name is Vader and like Darth Vader, SL2 will use the force (magnets) to stabilised its sensor. 

And the new look will also suit perfectly the Sith Lord.

Does it makes sense ? 

 

[sillbeers15]

10 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Do I have the choice ? Apparently 47MP is confirmed. What’s the point to hope for less ? Reality beats fantasy.

If SL2 has way faster CPU than Q2, it should be ok. If not it will be a major disappointment to choose such sensor. 

I already got a 47MP with Q2, so why not a SL2 with 47MP and APO-Summicron-SL 50mm as second camera ? I am entertaining the idea and hope that it will not disappoint.

 

About high ISO between 24MP vs 47MP. Of course you have to downsample 47 to 24MP for direct comparison. At 100% 24MP will always look better. But matching both at same lower resolution will give an advantage to 47MP images. Because you are trading resolution against noise reduction by oversampling. 

My thoughts are similar.

It is the processing power that needs to be sufficient for the AF tracking capability to work well. 

In theory, CDAF is way more superior than PDAF. But in real world, CDAF has improved lots but still the GAP exist in AF tracking. My experience from using SL AF-C tracking tells me that the let down mainly comes from one frame sharp followed by the next frame soft and following frame sharp again. Yes, the contrast detect hunts and it is how it seeks focusing. However with higher processing power, the hunting speed can overcome the image capturing frame rate to eliminate the problem totally or reduce it to much less. So on SL, I do not select ‘high’ frame rate but rather ‘medium’ as I get way better ‘focused’ AF success. In the S1R, the frame rate of AF-C drops to 6 frames per second automatically for the same reason.

36MP or 47MP on SL2 eventually, I just hope Leica can have sufficient development time to fine tune the SL2 AF-C tracking success rate for improvement over the Q2 and S1R released ahead in time.

That would be my 2019 wish to Santa!

[sillbeers15]

10 hours ago, Mr.Q said:

Well there are different preferences. There will always be a crowd that appreciates smaller, simpler and well-designed cameras. A good example is how poorly the feature-packed Fuji X-H1 is selling against the X-Pro2.

I agree that PDAF would be nice. I just want a small, versatile, and adaptable camera that is fun to shoot with because, honestly, in terms of IQ it's just splitting hairs. My X1D has a clear advantage over any fullframe camera + lens combo, and that's not going to change whether Leica goes with a 24 or 47 MP sensor.

I am a believer that no ‘One size fits all’ camera even to my own preference. I love my M10 for compactness and M lenses optical performance and compactness. But I love the SL for AF performance, versatility and even better optical performances from SL glasses.

I sling my M10 over my neck gracefully and comfortably but I hand carry and shoulder strap my SL only.

My desire for medium format reduced ad the FF gets higher resolution sensors and yet more versatile.

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, jrp said:

There are really only 3 interesting questions about the SL2 (for those with an SL)

• how well does it handle M lenses (an SL USP)
• does it have sensor stabilisation?
• is the sensor noticeably better than its predecessors (in terms of noise, esp at higher ISOs; dynamic range, colour, like the Panasonics; resolution bump, less important)

Yes, the ergonomics and appearance are considerations, the former rather more than the latter, but the Panasonic S1R + SL Summicron lenses sets a high bar.

Your three perhaps.  Someone else here might care about the EVF and quality of the viewing experience, the control interface (apart from ergonomics), whether LENR persists, the pricing and whether there’s a trade policy, etc. And others undoubtedly have other priorities and issues of interest.  It’s a diverse crowd here.

Jeff

[Jk1002]

It might very well be that they either invented a smaller stabilization setup just like the rockef the boat with their evf in the SL or that they start targeting the give me a q with changeable lenses crowd giving the M crowd another option. Note the Canon R doesnt have IBIS either.

Giving the button concept I  guessing they go after the M crowd and not after the Pros since they retained the 4 button concept on the S.

Would be disappointing though if Leica doesn’t have something innovative this time around. Sharing parts with Panasonic certainly is not it.

For me it will be either model, I played with the SL a bit and that was perfectly fine.for what I plan on doing. I am also looking at Hasselblad X1D2 but the bokeh caused by the shutter would cause problems for me.

 

JK

 

 

[Mr.Q]

1 hour ago, sillbeers15 said:

I am a believer that no ‘One size fits all’ camera even to my own preference. I love my M10 for compactness and M lenses optical performance and compactness. But I love the SL for AF performance, versatility and even better optical performances from SL glasses.

I sling my M10 over my neck gracefully and comfortably but I hand carry and shoulder strap my SL only.

My desire for medium format reduced ad the FF gets higher resolution sensors and yet more versatile.

I agree and that's precisely why I have too many cameras LOL

I carry the Q-P every day and the M9-P is collecting dust, so for me the SL sits somewhere between the X1D II and the Fuji aps-c system. The Fuji system I don't particularly enjoy shooting, but the size + versatility is unmatched. The X1D II is slow,  fun, and gets me the utmost IQ. True, FF is catching up in resolution but overall IQ is inferior, similar to FF vs aps-c. And the XCD 80/1.9 has me hooked. I think it's the best lens ever. The Summicron-SL's may have a "medium-format look" but honestly it's still not the real deal. 

[not12bhere]

Well, based only on the alleged pics of the SL2, it appears to be yet another evolutionary vs. revolutionary update  similar to the Q2 changes to the Q1. 

 

However, despite all of the distractions in the camera tech world, the next hardware based leap in mirrorless technology seems to be something few talk about; a camera sensor with Global Shutter. Maybe the SL2 has a trick or two up its’ sleeve yet (one can hope!).

 

Or perhaps it has an open software architecture for future software defined photography upgrades/enhancements similar to iOS and Android phones camera software.

 

Or perhaps it just has a Towerjazz 47mp sensor from the S1R, no IBIS, a clean interface, with two user customizable buttons on the front, and some more video friendly integrated video tools. In that case it will cause a lot of SL owners looking to upgrade a real cognitive conundrum given the current Panasonic offerings and likely Leica price. If the alleged info and pics are real, Leica even gave up the unique build of the SL moving away from hand-finished CNC aluminum to more traditional cost materials.

 

The other cognitive gymnastics issue is Panasonic’s upgrade schedule vs. Leica’s. I know for many Leica products that doesn’t matter but for a pro/pro amateur body I think it does and maybe the L mount alliance was a mistake unless they believe Panasonic purchasers will by Leica priced glass eventually?

[FlashGordonPhotography]

3 hours ago, Jk1002 said:

I am also looking at Hasselblad X1D2 but the bokeh caused by the shutter would cause problems for me.

 

JK

 

 

If you're referring to the hex bokeh it's caused by the aperture blades not the shutter. Wide open you can set a fully round diaphragm in the menus and get lovely round balls. Stopped down the hexagonal blades can occasionally, but not always, show the hex bokeh shapes.

Gordon

[sillbeers15]

4 hours ago, Mr.Q said:

I agree and that's precisely why I have too many cameras LOL

I carry the Q-P every day and the M9-P is collecting dust, so for me the SL sits somewhere between the X1D II and the Fuji aps-c system. The Fuji system I don't particularly enjoy shooting, but the size + versatility is unmatched. The X1D II is slow,  fun, and gets me the utmost IQ. True, FF is catching up in resolution but overall IQ is inferior, similar to FF vs aps-c. And the XCD 80/1.9 has me hooked. I think it's the best lens ever. The Summicron-SL's may have a "medium-format look" but honestly it's still not the real deal. 

I respect your preference as we all are different.

Photography is a hobby for me and I have quite a wide interest and subjects that I enjoy taking at different point in time.

I realise that I enjoy more starting with a picture in my head and plan for the shot selecting the location & mode. Next comes the selection of gears including off camera fill lights to create the shot. Therefore quite naturally the SL meets my plan more often than my M10.

I also try to limit my gear as mobility especially international flight travel would mean I cannot afford to bring a donkey on my trips.

My M is a camera I feel good about but the scope of application is kind of limited to me. On the other hand I would keep my SL going in rain and in snow.

I purchased a used M8 and a 12mm VL lens plus a 5m cable release just for the intention of taking two scene as plan,

1.  A Low angle boat ride view above the water;

2.  A Low angle view from the front of car shooting towards the car in motion.

Till date I’ve done #1 but yet to do #2.

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Splash by sillbeers15

Edited September 14, 2019 by sillbeers15

[Chaemono]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb sillbeers15:

I purchased a used M8 and a 12mm VL lens plus a 5m cable release just for the intention of taking two scene as plan,

1.  A Low angle boat ride view above the water;

2.  A Low angle view from the front of car shooting towards the car in motion.

Till date I’ve done #1 but yet to do #2.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Splash by sillbeers15

You purchased a used M8 just for this shot and a second to follow...because it’s waterproof or because if it fell in the water you wouldn’t care so much? 😁 And I thought I was a crazy son of a gun. I purchased the 75 Noctilux-M just for one shot. Still waiting for a second good shot with it to bring the average cost down. 😂

Edited September 14, 2019 by Chaemono

[Mr.Q]

We all have our disposable cameras 

[thighslapper]

9 hours ago, nicci78 said:

I think that SL2 will have IBIS.

Because its code name is Vader and like Darth Vader, SL2 will use the force (magnets) to stabilised its sensor. 

And the new look will also suit perfectly the Sith Lord.

Does it makes sense ? 

 

...... well Vader is also the name of a Polish Death Metal Band ...... maybe that makes sense as well..... 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[BlackDoc]

vor 46 Minuten schrieb thighslapper:

...... well Vader is also the name of a Polish Death Metal Band ...... maybe that makes sense as well..... 

and reading "Vader" i had my first thoughts about this guy 

i am NOT really sure what to expect from the SL-II with this association but i am  curious 😉