Seeking Long term user experiences with on the s007?

[yudafu2]

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Hi everyone,

 

Can I get your input on your experiences with the 007? How do you like it after a period of use? Are you disappointed or frustrated?

I have been using a s2p for 5 years, and have 35, 70, and 120 lenses. I loved the S camera mostly because of the lenses. The 120 is my favorite lens of all time for portraits. The lenses are what kept me in the system. I bought the Fuji gfx 50s and used it for a year on the side. I like the Fuji sensor, the aspect ratio 4:3 is more versatile,  and the User interface is surprisingly easy to operate. That being said, I did not fine a lens that is close to the 120 rendering. I tried the Hasselblad 110 FE, but it did not resolve well enough.

What is frustrating with the S2p is the limited iso. I wanted to get the s007 for a while just for the expanded shooting envelope.

Therefore, I got a second hand 007 yesterday for a reasonable price, but still more expensive than the Fuji, or the new Hasselblad x1dii. My friends are questioning my choice. I want to know your experience with the 007 after a period of use.  Is the sensor far behind the Fuji and Hassy? Is the shutter better than the previous S in terms of lower safe speed in handholding?   Would you choose the 007 against the x1dii or Fuji gfx 50s?

i am not a professional shooter. But I am a serious photographer. I do some personal photo projects , some random landscape and street shots, along with portraits for my family.  Is hoot mostly handheld. I also use M cameras all the time. 

 

Best,

george

 

 

 

[LeicaR10]

Yudafu2,   I have owned/own the S system cameras since 2009.  I currently use the S007 for my pro landscape work and have many of the S lenses (4+ years).  Like you, I tried the Fuji and Hasselblad X1D and associated lenses mainly because I wanted to take the medium format cameras on long-distance and remote hikes.  I found my clients did not like the rendering of either the Fuji or Hasselblad systems and they voted with their wallets.  It wasn't a color management, etc., that was the issue, it is simply the way the Leica S lenses draw.  So, I sold the other systems and I went back to the S007 system and my clients are happy.  As far as sensor of the other cameras, that did not play a factor for me.  It is always photograph content that is key to separating a mere photo from a photograph that makes a person;  Stop, Look, Think and if possible Feel, with feeling being the most difficult IMO to convey.  As for the shutter being better, Yes it is better than previous S cameras. But for my work, I always use a tripod and don't handhold the camera.  I have written other posts here on the S blog about my experience with the other systems and going back to the S.  Personally, I like the user interface of the S and other Leica cameras too; i.e., simple and intuitive.  It always gets down to two things anyways...shutter speed and f/stop the rest IMO is gravy.  A drawback for me, the S camera weight became an issue for me hiking 20-30 KM a day in mountains at my age to be challenging.  What I did to resolve my hiking/camera weight issue was to use the S camera for short distance hikes 0-10 KM and take S lenses that I think will help me create the photographs that I envision.  I use the SL system for the long-distance hikes and M system for really challenging remote hikes.  For me and my clients, the S system is superb and at least I have alternatives as well with the SL and M to help me get to the places I need to go to capture that moment in time.  Hope this helps.  r/ Mark

Edited August 24, 2019 by LeicaR10

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[mgrayson3]

I will just echo what LeicaR10 said above. When I carry the X1D and lenses because of weight and size, they just stay in the bag. When I carry the S(007), it's always in my hand shooting. I can't explain it. Some photographers I respect feel exactly the opposite. It is a personal response. On a tripod, live view magnified focusing matches the only advantage mirrorless had over the 006.

Matt

 

[Photon42]

@yudafu2: Situation sounds familiar. If you aren't financially dependent on your photographic equipment, do what you enjoy. I bought a S (James Bond Edition) early this year after having used an S2 for two years (I still have the S2). The S models are the cameras I just love to shoot with and I enjoy their output. What else counts?

Yes, the newer model improves the shooting envelope for speed and low ISO, plus you can wifi it and on a good day GPS may even work. I found all this enough to upgrade, when I got a local offer with Leica warranty. 

My lenses are 24/70/120 (similar to your set up), some Contax 645 and a HC 2.2/100.

[peterv]

2 hours ago, Photon42 said:

on a good day GPS may even work

🙂

My brand-new S007 seems to have a problem acquiring GPS coordinates, but I understand from your words and a forum-search I did yesterday, that GPS and GPS-time is not without glitches?

[yudafu2]

Thank you @Photon42 @mgrayson3 @LeicaR10 for your comments. They are reassuring. I am eagerly waiting for my S007 to arrive---it makes a weekend much less relaxing and so much longer to wait for something to arrive on Monday. 

I still have a few more questions:   What do you think would be the highest usable ISO on the S007?  Everyone has his own standard. For me, on the S2P, the highest I would go is 640. Do you think the 3200 on the S007 is comparable to S2 at 640? 

Second question is shutter speed. On the S2P, with the 120 lens, the lowest speed I can safely shoot at is 1/250s.  With the 35mm Summarit, the lowest I can go is 1/90s.  I read about David Farak's report on night shooting with the S007, and he can get shots clean at much lower speed. Is that your experience too?   (in that regard, the Fuji was very good. I can safely shoot 75mm Summilux at 1/60s without camera shake).

Third question is color. Is the original color from the sensor more in line with the M240 or the SL/M10?  Are the files as malleable as either? 

Fourth question is, have you compared the Fuji 110 F2 with the 120 Summarit?  I'd love to hear opinions on how differently they draw. I am also a bit intrigued by the 100mm Summicron, but it is just too expensive to justify at this point.  

 

 

In fact, I quite like the Fuji GFX 50s. I think one disadvantage of the S system is the 2x3 ratio.  The 4x3 ratio was closer to the traditional 4x5, and is also easier to crop to 1:1. That is actually how I use the Fuji. I do not care much about the native lenses, and therefore I adapt my 75 summilux on it and crop it as a square format camera (the 75 lux covers the square nicely. It is my digital version of hasselblad V).    

 

[ZHNL]

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Hi, George,

congratulation to you first.

lets put this way. The ones who stay with S this long will only praise the system. It is really hard to get balanced view here in S forum. 

For me, as I told you the best S system is S006 and 35/70/120. That is it. No more no less. You have the beautiful file with nice rendering.

007 offer many flexibility, I especially value its DR. To answer your question, S007 ISO3200 is cleaner than ISO640. File is way more robust than M file. Even it is in the same generation of M240, the color is different than M240, but not everyone have the same taste or ability to differentiate those.

Handhold S007 is definitely better than S2/S006, but again, if you want sharp usable file (depend on how you picky at pixel level), you either need 1/2f about the same as 006 or you use 2/f and chimp to make sure you got it before move on. In that sense, the benefit of handhold is limited IMHO.

AF has no improvement what so ever  compare to S2 or S006, it sounds fancier but end result is the same or less.

To sum it up, compare 007 to 006, its a trade off that you lose direct control of shutter speed (very useful in field) and “magic” color but gain tons of flexibility in LV, video and DR if you value those highly. I would say S007 is a better landscape system, I like its file even better than latest D850 or Z7  S006 is a better portrait and daily camera, the file is without peer, which itself make S system shine and it is the reason I pick S initially, hence I recommend this combo more because it is truly special. 

S system is always the system I enjoy to use but constantly deal with different issue over the years make the experience bitter and sorry if that is shown in this reply.

Under all cases, this is a luxury system not build for pro with many reliability issues at different level. 

Since you have made your selection and have bought it, just have fun and enjoy using it. Others opinions will only make you either having buyer remorse or confirmation may or may not align with yours.

i am just trying to be honest and as balanced as I can be. Which may help anyone interested in this topic.

Talk to you more later.

have fun,

Michael

 

[mgrayson3]

Inspired by my own claims above, I took the 007 and S24 out for a walk for the first time in a while. I just like using it! With any other camera, I inevitably go to B&W. With the S, I love the color and go about 50/50. It was a fun day! Pictures chosen for enthusiasm rather than for quality....

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Matt

Edited August 24, 2019 by mgrayson3

[Photon42]

9 hours ago, peterv said:

🙂

My brand-new S007 seems to have a problem acquiring GPS coordinates, but I understand from your words and a forum-search I did yesterday, that GPS and GPS-time is not without glitches?

My experience as well. Works when you think it should, does not work some minutes later. Take often long to lock. I don’t care, really.

[yudafu2]

@mgrayson3 I checked out your website and your architectural photos are just stunning and exquisite. I am kind of surprised that you choose the S system for architecture, since the S has no Tilt-Shift lens at wide angles. Did you primarily used the 24?  Do you think the 24 with the S produces better results than the X1d with its 21?  

@LeicaR10 What are the subjects of your photography? Are you a landscape person? Do you feel that the 2x3 ratio is a drawback for your art? Do you have to constantly crop it to more squarish format? I kind of wish Leica can release a new square format sensor camera and use the S lenses for it. The S lens should have quite big an image circle. 

[John McMaster]

Since Leica created the 3:2 ratio I doubt a square sensor, even if someone made one 😉

john

[John McMaster]

Actually, the Leica S1 had a square sensor 😉

john

[Jeff S]

26 minutes ago, John McMaster said:

Actually, the Leica S1 had a square sensor 😉

john

And it could accept adapted Hasselblad T/S lenses, or be attached to the back of a LF view camera to take advantage of movements.  But as a scanning back, very slow, with many other peculiarities.

Jeff

[John McMaster]

Never likely to see one, outside of Wetzlar 😉

john

[LeicaR10]

Yudafu2,   To answer your questions in your Post #10, I shoot primarily landscape photographs on a professional basis.  I also photograph landscapes and people in their native surroundings on a personal level.  I find the 3:2 aspect ratio has never hindered my work and find it to be an excellent format.  Of course I use other formats depending on the Leica camera system too.  I don't crop to square for landscape photographs.  If I do, it might be for people photographs.  Most of my landscape photographs print 6 ft x 4 ft and larger for corporate clients.  My private clients like 36"X24" or 48"X36" and at times larger depending on what they want for their collections.  Personally, I would not find a square sensor to be helpful for my photographs but everyone has their preferences.  I hope this answers your questions.  r/ Mark

[yudafu2]

Got my S007 yesterday and played with it a little. 

Few initial impressions.

1. The camera feels so much more refined, especially the menu system and the agility in responses. Though the smaller shutter dial is a shame. 

2. The sensor has good DR and high ISO ability that is comparable to the Fuji GFX. The ISO 6400 shots are of comparable quality to the 640 ones on S2P, which is a blessing. 

3. The DNG files exhibit a very strong green channel that I have never seen before in other cameras. It takes some getting used to. But why did they make the color look so green out of the raw file?  That being said, the files are definitely more malleable than the S2 files, but not as malleable as the GFX. 

4. Like @ZHNL said, the AF is much faster, but not as reliably accurate as the S2P. 

5. Shutter speed. I can safely hold at 1/60s even 1/45s with the 35, and 1/80 with the 120. That is a full stop better than the S2p. It definitely helps.  

So far I am happy. But I do have a few questions.

 

1. Shall I expect my S lenses to fail with the advent of the 007. My 35 has already gone to Germany once to have the AF motor replaced, but yesterday with the new camera, I realized there is a loose part rolling around inside the lens that I never noticed before. All my lenses are over 5 years, so I should set some money aside for their AF repair? That would really suck, as the jail time is way too long. 

 

George

[LeicaR10]

George,  You should expect the camera to not impact the S lenses.  The S AF motor issue is a lens issue.  But S lenses should not have anything rattling around inside.  Might be time for a S lens inspection and CLA with Leica for the lens.  Or...simply wait until the lens stops working.  If the affected lens is the one repaired by Leica, you might check the warranty date for the repair.   r/ Mark

[Jeff S]

25 minutes ago, LeicaR10 said:

George,  You should expect the camera to not impact the S lenses.  The S AF motor issue is a lens issue.  But S lenses should not have anything rattling around inside.  Might be time for a S lens inspection and CLA with Leica for the lens.  Or...simply wait until the lens stops working.  If the affected lens is the one repaired by Leica, you might check the warranty date for the repair.   r/ Mark

On the contrary, there are many posts in the threads specific to the AF failures that the frequency seemed to increase when the S007 was introduced, then the same seemed to happen with the S006 when new FW was introduced that speeded up the AF.  The part apparently couldn’t handle the increased load.

But unfortunately,  Leica has never clarified the specific cause(s) or condition(s) relating to the failures, so we really don’t know to what extent this involves a specific batch of lenses, the body type or age, the FW, the usage habits of the owner, the weather or storage conditions, just bad luck or something else.

So I wouldn’t predict one way or the other, but I would be prepared for the possibility of failure.  And I’d never buy an S lens, new or used, without the ‘permanent’ fix.

Jeff

[Stuart Richardson]

Do we really need the specific cause? Logic dictates that it is a wear and tear issue. The part is under specified for the torque or load on it, and it eventually breaks. It happens more quickly or frequently with the cameras that focus faster or have a higher load. There may be some other factors, but I do not think there is much you can do about it. Using MF might help, but still, every time you turn on the camera or mount the lens, it racks the lens through the AF procedure, so there is no avoiding it completely. I think it is fair to just wait and see what happens. Most of my lenses eventually failed, but I have still been using my 120mm since 2011 with no issues. I figure I will have to eat the cost at some point if it does fail, as I missed the warranty window, but for the meantime it has worked with rather frequent use for the last 8 years. 

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[Jeff S]

It was only after lots of forum noise that Leica execs communicated here the circumstances and background regarding both the M yellow screen stain issue and later sensor (cover glass) corrosion.  So, yes, I prefer transparent communications; not just what happened, but how it happened. The S customer base clearly doesn’t have the clout of M users.  

Jeff

Edited August 28, 2019 by Jeff S