Is there an eye doctor in the house? re: Diopters

[Sam]

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I'm wondering if I could get enhanced focusing with by adding a correction lens to my M10, but I'm confused as to which one to buy.
My prescription reads:

LEFT EYE (my dominant eye)

Sphere:  Plano

Cylinder:  -1.25

Axis: 030

Leica says the viewfinder is -0.5 by default.

Can anyone advise me on this?

Thanks!

Edited July 19, 2019 by Sam

[Peter Kilmister]

Sorry, I can't help on what you need, but I can comment on the process. 

I had to buy a dioptre for my M10-p but that was based on trial and error with an M240-p where I ended up with a dioptre of +1.50. I use reading glasses of +3, however I can see as far as the horizon and the moon and stars without any assistance. Typical, older-age, long sight.

The viewfinder is set to a certain metric distance so it is not like trying to read a book or a newspaper with the naked eye at arm's length. 

If you live within spitting distance of a Leica shop or dealer then go in and try out the various options until you find the perfect fit.

Good luck!

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[Peter Kilmister]

If you are, like me, a long way from a dealer then buy a cheap variable dioptre from a firm in Hong Kong who advertise on eBay. Then you get a good idea of what you need. I have a spare one of these items which I bought to help me out with my M240-p. You can have it for the cost of postage but it won't fit an M10 eyepiece.

[Jeff S]

If you’re not close to a Leica dealer, stop by any optician that stocks free trial diopters and tape them to your VF until you find the best result.  Then order the official M10 Leica diopter in that strength.

You’ll need to correct for any astigmatism first.  I wear glasses for astigmatism and distance, but still benefit from a +.5 diopter, common for aging eyes.  Note that the focus patch is set to a virtual distance of 2m. 

Jeff

[LeicaR10]

Sam,  I just sent you an email with some information that might help you.  r/ Mark

[genji]

Sam, it’s not clear from your post whether or not you wear eyeglasses when using your M10. I have two sets of varifocal glasses, one for distance and another for reading. Since the varifocal distance glasses were entirely unsuitable for using with a rangefinder camera, I had my optometrist prescribe a set of bifocals: the upper lens for distance, the lower lens for checking the LCD at waist level. We then tested for the correct diopter using the method Jeff suggested, with him placing various trial diopters in front of my M10-P’s viewfinder while I attempted to focus while wearing the bifocals. Not surprisingly, since my vision was being corrected by the eyeglasses, a +0.5 diopter gave the best result because it “zeroed out” the M10/M10-P viewfinder’s -0.5 default.

If you don’t wear don’t wear your glasses whilst photographing with your M10, someone more knowledgeable may be able to suggest a diopter based on the optical information you provided. However the procedure that Jeff recommended and which worked well for me—trialling different diopters while looking through the viewfinder—is easy and reliable.

[rclompus]

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I’m an eye doctor from California.  Hopefully I can help a bit.  Your left eye distance spectacle prescription: Plano - 1.25 x 30 indicates the correction is for astigmatism.  The “axis” or orientation  of the corrective lens will be 30 degrees.  See image below.  If you could have a custom astigmatic corrective lens made for the Leica eyepiece, it would have to be oriented to 30 degrees for it to correct your vision.  It the axis or orientation of the corrective lens is changed, the lens will blur your vision rather than correct it.  

Your are fortunate that your distance optical correction is relatively “mild”.   You may want to try an approximation of your prescription called the “spherical equivalent”.  This is calculated as half the astigmatic correction using spherical lenses. The spherical equivalent of your prescription is - 0.67 diopters or approximately -0.50 diopters.   So the first step would be to try a corrective eye piece lens of -0.50 diopters.  It should provide clarity of the rangefinder.  This corrective lens would not be comfortable for full time use in glasses but may be a good compromise for taking photos.  I hope this helps.  

Be well,

Richard Clompus

  

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Edited July 20, 2019 by rclompus

[microview]

Don't forget the Leica viewfinder has its own dioptre setting: from Red Dot Cameras web page "it should be noted that the Leica M's viewfinder is preset by default to -0.5 diopters. So anyone wearing glasses of 1 diopter strength would require a +1.5 diopters M system correction lens". 

[low325]

So does this mean if you wear glasses and you have a diopter in the camera, you will most likely be removing ones glasses whilst using the RF? Is that the compromise? Apologies if that’s just the obvious, I’m really debating on diopters but it’s a toss up since I’d rather just have one focusing aid when I’m out and about and that’s primarily my glasses. 

[Jeff S]

Leica designs the VF system so that folks with ‘normal’ vision will have the best unaided viewing experience.  

Jeff

[Sam]

14 hours ago, Peter Kilmister said:

If you are, like me, a long way from a dealer then buy a cheap variable dioptre from a firm in Hong Kong who advertise on eBay. Then you get a good idea of what you need. I have a spare one of these items which I bought to help me out with my M240-p. You can have it for the cost of postage but it won't fit an M10 eyepiece.

That's very kind of you Peter! I will let you know if I decide to take you up on your generous offer. 

[Sam]

10 hours ago, genji said:

Sam, it’s not clear from your post whether or not you wear eyeglasses when using your M10. I have two sets of varifocal glasses, one for distance and another for reading. Since the varifocal distance glasses were entirely unsuitable for using with a rangefinder camera, I had my optometrist prescribe a set of bifocals: the upper lens for distance, the lower lens for checking the LCD at waist level. We then tested for the correct diopter using the method Jeff suggested, with him placing various trial diopters in front of my M10-P’s viewfinder while I attempted to focus while wearing the bifocals. Not surprisingly, since my vision was being corrected by the eyeglasses, a +0.5 diopter gave the best result because it “zeroed out” the M10/M10-P viewfinder’s -0.5 default.

If you don’t wear don’t wear your glasses whilst photographing with your M10, someone more knowledgeable may be able to suggest a diopter based on the optical information you provided. However the procedure that Jeff recommended and which worked well for me—trialling different diopters while looking through the viewfinder—is easy and reliable.

Trialing diopters sounds like an excellent idea, although I've never heard of such a thing in the US. I have looked briefly online at some local eyeglass shops and couldn't find anything pertaining to what you're speaking of. I will investigate that further because that sounds like the perfect solution.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Sam

[Jeff S]

10 hours ago, rclompus said:

I’m an eye doctor from California.  Hopefully I can help a bit.  Your left eye distance spectacle prescription: Plano - 1.25 x 30 indicates the correction is for astigmatism.  The “axis” or orientation  of the corrective lens will be 30 degrees.  See image below.  If you could have a custom astigmatic corrective lens made for the Leica eyepiece, it would have to be oriented to 30 degrees for it to correct your vision.  It the axis or orientation of the corrective lens is changed, the lens will blur your vision rather than correct it.  

Your are fortunate that your distance optical correction is relatively “mild”.   You may want to try an approximation of your prescription called the “spherical equivalent”.  This is calculated as half the astigmatic correction using spherical lenses. The spherical equivalent of your prescription is - 0.67 diopters or approximately -0.50 diopters.   So the first step would be to try a corrective eye piece lens of -0.50 diopters.  It should provide clarity of the rangefinder.  This corrective lens would not be comfortable for full time use in glasses but may be a good compromise for taking photos.  I hope this helps.  

Be well,

Richard Clompus

  

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The Walter Eyepiece can be made to also correct for astigmatism.  But I far prefer to wear my glasses for this; otherwise I’d need to constantly take my glasses on and off when my eye isn’t pressed against the VF.  The Walter is also not as simple and sleek as the Leica diopter. And, in daylight, I need prescription sunglasses for light sensitivity anyway.  I also dislike contacts.

Eye comfort and accommodation is a very personal matter, which is why the numbers don’t tell the whole story.  For me, experience is key.

Jeff

[Sam]

10 hours ago, rclompus said:

I’m an eye doctor from California.  Hopefully I can help a bit.  Your left eye distance spectacle prescription: Plano - 1.25 x 30 indicates the correction is for astigmatism.  The “axis” or orientation  of the corrective lens will be 30 degrees.  See image below.  If you could have a custom astigmatic corrective lens made for the Leica eyepiece, it would have to be oriented to 30 degrees for it to correct your vision.  It the axis or orientation of the corrective lens is changed, the lens will blur your vision rather than correct it.  

Your are fortunate that your distance optical correction is relatively “mild”.   You may want to try an approximation of your prescription called the “spherical equivalent”.  This is calculated as half the astigmatic correction using spherical lenses. The spherical equivalent of your prescription is - 0.67 diopters or approximately -0.50 diopters.   So the first step would be to try a corrective eye piece lens of -0.50 diopters.  It should provide clarity of the rangefinder.  This corrective lens would not be comfortable for full time use in glasses but may be a good compromise for taking photos.  I hope this helps.  

Be well,

Richard Clompus

  

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Thank you Dr Clompus! I very much appreciate your help. I normally don't wear my eyeglasses when I shoot if that means anything. When I have, I've used the lower bifocal part which works pretty well, but not that much difference from not using glasses at all. So maybe I'm chasing an improvement that doesn't exist?

And as someone stated, Leica says "it should be noted that the Leica M's viewfinder is preset by default to -0.5 diopters. So anyone wearing glasses of 1 diopter strength would require a +1.5 diopters M system correction lens".   So how does this affect my choice of diopters?

Also, have you heard of trialing diopters? A couple of people have suggested that, but I'm not familiar with it. I don't know if our shops in the US offer something like that.

[Jeff S]

11 minutes ago, Sam said:

Trialing diopters sounds like an excellent idea, although I've never heard of such a thing in the US. I have looked briefly online at some local eyeglass shops and couldn't find anything pertaining to what you're speaking of. I will investigate that further because that sounds like the perfect solution.

I suggested this (post 4), and have easily found local opticians in multiple US cities that stock trial diopters. Just stop in and ask.  It’s more rare that they don’t stock them... just not for testing cameras, but they’ll understand. Most all opticians provide free services for adjustments and minor issues, even if you’re not a regular customer.

Jeff

Edited July 20, 2019 by Jeff S

[Sam]

51 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

I suggested this (post 4), and have easily found local opticians in multiple US cities that stock trial diopters. Just stop in and ask.  It’s more rare that they don’t stock them... just not for testing cameras, but they’ll understand. Most all opticians provide free services for adjustments and minor issues, even if you’re not a regular customer.

Jeff

Thank you Jeff! I will find one today. I appreciate your help.

[Jeff S]

8 minutes ago, Sam said:

Thank you Jeff! I will find one today. I appreciate your help.

Good luck.  Of course the trial diopters won’t screw in, so you’ll need to hold them against the VF.  My local guy was nice enough to provide some clear tape to hold them in place for easier testing.  He also guessed the proper strength when I gave him the specs on my eyeglasses, virtual focus distance (2m) and built in diopter (-.5).

Jeff

[Sam]

2 hours ago, Jeff S said:

I suggested this (post 4), and have easily found local opticians in multiple US cities that stock trial diopters. Just stop in and ask.  It’s more rare that they don’t stock them... just not for testing cameras, but they’ll understand. Most all opticians provide free services for adjustments and minor issues, even if you’re not a regular customer.

Jeff

 

I contacted 6 eyeglass places here and none of them had trial diopters or even knew what they were. Maybe I need to move to a more sophisticated city

[Luke_Miller]

3 hours ago, Sam said:

And as someone stated, Leica says "it should be noted that the Leica M's viewfinder is preset by default to -0.5 diopters. So anyone wearing glasses of 1 diopter strength would require a +1.5 diopters M system correction lens".   So how does this affect my choice of diopters?

I have 20/20 distance vision, but have reached a "certain age" where I need  a +2.5 correction for reading and computer work.  I used the trial and error approach when selecting the proper diopter value for my M bodies.  Ultimately I settled of a +1.0 correction.  That works for all distances.  A stronger correction makes it great for close, but very difficult for distance.  In my case my reading correction was not particularly relevant to what I needed for focusing.  I believe that is because my camera subjects are significantly further away than my newspaper or computer screen.

The advice to use trial diopters is right on.  But in my case the "trial" Leica diopters were $100 a pop.

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[Sam]

18 minutes ago, Luke_Miller said:

I have 20/20 distance vision, but have reached a "certain age" where I need  a +2.5 correction for reading and computer work.  I used the trial and error approach when selecting the proper diopter value for my M bodies.  Ultimately I settled of a +1.0 correction.  That works for all distances.  A stronger correction makes it great for close, but very difficult for distance.  In my case my reading correction was not particularly relevant to what I needed for focusing.  I believe that is because my camera subjects are significantly further away than my newspaper or computer screen.

The advice to use trial diopters is right on.  But in my case the "trial" Leica diopters were $100 a pop.

I'm tempted to buy one of each correction and send back the ones that don't work.