Q2 highlights

[jaapv]

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On 7/17/2019 at 9:27 PM, setuporg said:

 What are we going to do about it?

Let's start off by explaining what you mean by "the Leica look" 

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[PhotoCruiser]

Am 18.7.2019 um 10:15 schrieb antigallican:

meter for highlights and buy a copy of Lightroom?

Exactly that!

I always have Exposure at - 1/3, using the Q2 in a studio with perfect lighting conditions I would leave it at 0

All the digital cameras I had and have blow out the highlights if either dynamic is too strong or EV is set wrong.
BTW, when I was shooting and developing analog it was the same thing, dark foreground and high light background --> blown out highlights

Chris

[Sylavin]

On 7/17/2019 at 7:27 PM, setuporg said:

Q2 clearly blows out the highlights.  It does have the Leica look elsewhere.  What are we going to do about it?

Hi, 

I have the same issue, here you can see the difference between the Leica Q2 and the Nikon z6 ii, in the same light conditions. You can see it with the screenshot of the RAW pics, do you have a solution for that? Thanks

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[Sylavin]

On 7/18/2019 at 4:15 PM, antigallican said:

meter for highlights and buy a copy of Lightroom?

Hi, 

I have the same issue, and yes I know how to meter the light, here you can see the difference between the Leica Q2 and the Nikon Z6 ii, in the same light conditions (look at the faces, same exposure). You can see it with the screenshot of the RAW pics, do you have a solution for that? Thanks

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[Herr Barnack]

On 7/17/2019 at 3:27 PM, setuporg said:

Q2 clearly blows out the highlights.  It does have the Leica look elsewhere.  What are we going to do about it?

@setuporg In lighting situations where the highlights are in danger of blowing out, dial in -2/3 EV exposure compensation.  Take a few test shots. 

If -2/3 EV doesn't do the job, go to -1 EV or an even lower EV compensation value.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Herr Barnack

[M11 for me]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Sylavin:

Hi, 

I have the same issue, and yes I know how to meter the light, here you can see the difference between the Leica Q2 and the Nikon Z6 ii, in the same light conditions (look at the faces, same exposure). You can see it with the screenshot of the RAW pics, do you have a solution for that? Thanks

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Hm, look at your 2 pictures. They do not have the same brightness. 

[SrMi]

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9 hours ago, Sylavin said:

Hi, 

I have the same issue, and yes I know how to meter the light, here you can see the difference between the Leica Q2 and the Nikon Z6 ii, in the same light conditions (look at the faces, same exposure). You can see it with the screenshot of the RAW pics, do you have a solution for that? Thanks

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How do you meter? 

I found the best way is to use Manual Exposure with "Clipping: On" and making sure relevant highlights are not blown.

[SrMi]

To quote Jim Kasson:

Almost all comments about highlight clipping and rolloff in raw files can be traced to exposure variations, often caused by the metering systems of the cameras involved.

[setuporg]

On 5/6/2021 at 10:04 AM, Sylavin said:

Hi, 

I have the same issue, and yes I know how to meter the light, here you can see the difference between the Leica Q2 and the Nikon Z6 ii, in the same light conditions (look at the faces, same exposure). You can see it with the screenshot of the RAW pics, do you have a solution for that? Thanks

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

One of these cameras also turns the buckets toward itself!:)

[jaapv]

On 5/6/2021 at 7:04 PM, Sylavin said:

Hi, 

I have the same issue, and yes I know how to meter the light, here you can see the difference between the Leica Q2 and the Nikon Z6 ii, in the same light conditions (look at the faces, same exposure). You can see it with the screenshot of the RAW pics, do you have a solution for that? Thanks

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

The lefthand one is overexposed by 1-2 EV values compared to the righthand one. Look at the faces...

[Marley]

Hi, another beginner here. If I underexpose by -2/3 EV stops then the clipping is minimized but then the scene becomes too dark. Is this easy to recover or adjust in post? 

Usually I just view the histogram while turning the thumbwheel to adjust EV. But then I feel sometimes most of my shots tends to be darker. Anyway, I just keep on shooting and learning while waiting for a new Mac and Lightroom. 

 

 

[jaapv]

18 minutes ago, Marley said:

Is this easy to recover or adjust in post? 

Very easy. I deduce that you are not very experienced in postprocessing. What program do you use?
Your technique for determining exposure is excellent, far better than dialing in a permanent bias.

Edit:

I see Lightroom.
Start off by shooting DNG (+JPG). Avoid using JPG - you lose data and the alleged difficulty difference is illusory  - there is virtually no distinction between the two in Lighroom but you lose quality.

To begin with, in the Basic settings you can simply hit "Auto" That gives a good starting point. Move on to the other chapters and try them out. You can always revert. When you have been playing with the sliders for a while, you'll get a feeling for the effect you are creating.

Buy a book :like this one

Watch the tutorials here

[M11 for me]

May I add a few points:

- The sensor has a limited capability to distinguish beween light and dark. A highend sensor has about 15 EV. As a consequence in situations of very high dynamic range (more than that amount of EV) you have to make a choice whether you want to save the dark or the light areas.

- In post (e.g. Adobe Lightroom) the dark areas are much more forgiving than the highlights. Often it is better to look after the highlights if you have to make a decision.

- The Q2 helps you by means of the hystogram that you can activate in the finder plus the highlight clipping (blinking red where highlights are blown out).

- Note that the image you see in the finder is NOT the RAW that has more data to work on in post than the JPG. In the finder you see a JPG. So be aware that when this image in the finder plus the hystogram indicate blowout highlights that does not mean that in the RAW data the highlights are really blown out as well.

- What can you do? Correct your image in the finder by closing the aperture or increasing the shutter speed (resp. ISO changes) until the hystogramm does not tough its limitation to the right and at the same time the clipping does not blink any more. Now you can go up again by 1 ½ EV aporox. if you shoot in RAW. The Q2 will deliver now perfect RAW data for your post processing. There will be no blown out clouds. The dark areas in your pictures you can lighten up to a certain degree. 

- Do not expect miracles: When our eyes see a very bright sky on top of the picture and on the bottom the view into a dark wood with lots of high trees then you can not see more in your photograph compared to what you see with your eyes. When you try to lighten up that wood too much in post then of course the colours might break appart and you will see increased noise. 

- As a consequence be aware at what time of the day you shoot: When you try to shoot that same sceene in the evening when the sun is flat but it is still good daylight then the dynamic range will be reduced and neither the dark areas nor the highlights will have any problem. You see that well in your hystogram.

- The right light is the most important variable in photography.

- And finally: The RAW has more data than the JPG. If you need best quality output then shoot in RAW. I personally never shoot in JPG. RAW only is enough. You loose too much time in post to look at all your RAW / JPG pairs to make out which one to use or which is better one. I promise you that in 90% of the cases the RAW is your choice. So turn off JPG completely once for ever.

Edited May 8, 2021 by M10 for me
spelling mistakes and grammar

[jaapv]

The dynamic range of a modern sensor is similar to film. The real point is that on (negative) film the “hard stop” is the shadows blocking up when 100% of halide crystals are activated, whereas on a sensor the blocking is in the highlights when the sensels are filled to 100% capacity. 
This is the reason why photographers who are used to slide film, which needs a reverse exposure technique, have no problems exposing a digital camera. 

[M11 for me]

Another thing that is on my mind: As wee see in the 2 pictures above that do not have the same brightness we have a problem comparing the 2. The settings of the 2 cameras (in the case above a Q2 and a Nikon) might be identical: Same aperture, same shutter speed and same ISO. And as we see the output is still different.

Note:

- ISO 100 on camera A is not exactly ISO 100 on camera B (there are deviations here that come from lack of the definition of what ISO is or other technical aspects)

- We expect that shutter speed is accurate. This is an assumption. The same shutter speed might slightly vary from brand to brand.

- An result of an F-stopp on lens A is not equal to the result of the same F-stop on lens B. There are several point to mention here: Besides the fact that F stopp is a mathematical variable: Focal length in mm divided by widest aperture in mm equals f-stop. It says nothing about transparencies of used glasses or coatings of the lens etc. As a consequence with the same f-stop one lens delivers brighter results than another lens with the same f-stop. This had to be solved in the professional cinema world where they use differen cameras or lenses for the same sceene where the brightness of the 2 used lenses has to be equal. They do not use f-stops but t-stops. A t-stop of lens one equals the light it lets through of lens two. But such lenses have normally a much higher price. Photographers do not need that level of precision.

Edited May 8, 2021 by M10 for me

[Marley]

On 5/8/2021 at 9:41 AM, jaapv said:

Very easy. I deduce that you are not very experienced in postprocessing. What program do you use?
Your technique for determining exposure is excellent, far better than dialing in a permanent bias.

Edit:

I see Lightroom.
Start off by shooting DNG (+JPG). Avoid using JPG - you lose data and the alleged difficulty difference is illusory  - there is virtually no distinction between the two in Lighroom but you lose quality.

To begin with, in the Basic settings you can simply hit "Auto" That gives a good starting point. Move on to the other chapters and try them out. You can always revert. When you have been playing with the sliders for a while, you'll get a feeling for the effect you are creating.

Buy a book :like this one

Watch the tutorials here

Thank you! Will look into that book. Also the tip on automatic is a good starting point. Already changed my settings to DNG only. Will start to shoot more selectively since my memory card now shows 400+ images as compared to 2k before that 😃 

[antigallican]

On 5/8/2021 at 10:44 AM, jaapv said:

The dynamic range of a modern sensor is similar to film. The real point is that on (negative) film the “hard stop” is the shadows blocking up when 100% of halide crystals are activated, whereas on a sensor the blocking is in the highlights when the sensels are filled to 100% capacity. 
This is the reason why photographers who are used to slide film, which needs a reverse exposure technique, have no problems exposing a digital camera. 

This is correct. Put simply, you have to choose what is the thing you absolutely must have correctly exposed. Then further what must be what must be correctly focussed, what sits where in the frame. Despite the blandishments of manufacturers, we just can't outsource this to software.

[Sylavin]

Hello everyone,

First of all thank you for your comments and I will try to answer your remarks:

- I expose in manual mode and it's true that since I have the clipping in on mode I under-expose my photos and with the q2 there is more tolerance with the shadows than with the highlights

- I shoot always and only RAW files

-I agree, the light is essential, but on the field you can not always chose the light conditions (you can not imagine haow many I had to shoot outside, at midday and I live in Africa)

- Then, I don't agree with the people who say that it's because the left picture is overexposed by 2 EV, if it's overexposed, it's minor and it doesn't justify that the highlights are completely blown.

-I have the answer, it comes from Leica, the 50 ISO is NOT native, it is forced so much less effective, I copy you his mail here:

 

"Thank you for your request.

We have received and checked your pictures, the Nikon used ISO100 and the Leica Q2 used ISO50.

The ISO50 are electronically controlled and therefore there is a little less dynamic range.

The native ISO of camera sensors is usually between ISO 100-200. We don't see any faults in the Leica Q2 images.

Leica sensors are designed to restore the shadows as best as possible…

 

I will forward your information and pictures to our development department so that we can take it into account in future updates.

 

Do not hesitate to contact us again if you have further questions."

 

Conclusion: Don't shoot at 50 ISO!

 

Thanks

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica Q

[SrMi]

22 hours ago, Sylavin said:

Hello everyone,

First of all thank you for your comments and I will try to answer your remarks:

- I expose in manual mode and it's true that since I have the clipping in on mode I under-expose my photos and with the q2 there is more tolerance with the shadows than with the highlights

- I shoot always and only RAW files

-I agree, the light is essential, but on the field you can not always chose the light conditions (you can not imagine haow many I had to shoot outside, at midday and I live in Africa)

- Then, I don't agree with the people who say that it's because the left picture is overexposed by 2 EV, if it's overexposed, it's minor and it doesn't justify that the highlights are completely blown.

-I have the answer, it comes from Leica, the 50 ISO is NOT native, it is forced so much less effective, I copy you his mail here:

 

"Thank you for your request.

We have received and checked your pictures, the Nikon used ISO100 and the Leica Q2 used ISO50.

The ISO50 are electronically controlled and therefore there is a little less dynamic range.

The native ISO of camera sensors is usually between ISO 100-200. We don't see any faults in the Leica Q2 images.

Leica sensors are designed to restore the shadows as best as possible…

 

I will forward your information and pictures to our development department so that we can take it into account in future updates.

 

Do not hesitate to contact us again if you have further questions."

 

Conclusion: Don't shoot at 50 ISO!

 

Thanks

It is OK to shoot at ISO 50, but you have to watch your metering more (extra negative EC). That is not much of an issue when metering manually.

PhotonsToPhotos has measured better DR at ISO 50 than at ISO 100. Owners have also observed better DR at ISO 50. The question is whether the metering weirdness at ISO 50 is worth the extra DR. 

I have also heard from Leica that ISO 50 is not native. Weirdly, measurements contradict that statement.