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M-D (Type 262) production numbers?


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2 hours ago, pippy said:

Thank you for taking the trouble to check, boojum; it is much appreciated!

Yes; they jump.

As far as I can understand it Leica has always allocated serial numbers to various cameras in production as a series of batches so, to take some examples from the list in post #55, there was a batch of M-D 262 cameras which (presumably) started 4 987 500 and another from 4 987 600 so each of these runs had (presumably) 100 examples made. The next known (here) run starts at 4 998 600 so there is a gap of 10,000 camera serial numbers (from 4 987 699 to 4 998 600) which (presumably) were allocated to different Leica camera models such as the M240 / M246 / M262 and so on.

The reason your serial is so interesting is that all the rest of the numbers listed are from batches usually only a few thousand apart. There is one break of 15,000 between two particular batches but yours is almost 100,000 earlier than the next known number. Nor has any other M-D 262 from the 48891xx batch ever been mentioned and that is to me, quite frankly, very interesting indeed!

Philip.

I read numbers better than letters, I guess.  The number I have given you is off an M240.  Man, I am losing it.  Geritol, where's my Geritol?  Actually dyslexia, a plague all my days.

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11 minutes ago, pippy said:

Ah!

Thank you very much for the update, boojum; that does make a lot more sense I have to admit! I hope you are managing to get out for some photo outings in these strange times!

Philip.

 

Living the the rainiest city in the US makes for grim, gray and rainy winters.  We do get sunshine on occasion and mostly in the summer.  Others claim more rain but they have to beat this: https://www.bestplaces.net/climate/city/oregon/astoria  I do think we are the rainiest.  I'll be out for every opportunity.

Cheers

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Crikey! Wet and Cold for most of the year!?

That's quite an impressive list of statistics which is shown in the link. Mind you; as a Scotsman I'd probably feel right at home...

Don't forget to take the 'brolly if you head out!

Philip.

 

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  • 3 months later...
On 2/11/2021 at 4:19 PM, pippy said:

Just a little update.

Going through the thread here is the current state of affairs compiled from serial numbrers listed by those members who have listed the first five digits;

49824xx

49826xx

49830xx

49871xx

49875xx

49876xx

49986xx

49987xx

49988xx

51429xx

51501xx

51504xx

51505xx

51537xx

Assuming there to be 100 cameras per listed batch we are now at the 1,400 mark for unit production.

Philip.

 

1,400 units (assuming here) would be "Limited Edition" without the following by far higher price.

May I think that the sh price would increase ?

Not that is important as I don't plan to sell mine anyway, at any price,

but I think of to-be-users/buyers ...

 

To repeat myself,

as photographic tool, this M-D is at top of my many Leica Ms (film or sensor).

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11 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

...May I think that the sh price would increase ?......Not that is important as I don't plan to sell mine anyway, at any price,but I think of to-be-users/buyers...

It's difficult to say for sure, Arnaud, because the M-D Typ-262 very rarely comes on the s/h market (at least here in the UK). Funnily enough there is one currently available from a London dealership and, just taking it as an example, it is priced roughly 1/3rd higher than the regular M Typ-262 (in similar condition etc.). The latter can readily be found for somewhere in the £2,800 - £3,000 (c. 3,200 - 3,400 Euros) range whereas the one M-D up for grabs is £4,000 (4,600 Euros). Additionally I'd say that the shop with the M-D, in general, prices their stock below that of their main competitors

To put the current asking price in context that is quite a bit more than I paid for mine a couple of years ago which, being an ex-shop-demo example was effectively a brand-new mint-in-box camera with a mere 114 clicks to its name.

Like you I cannot see any situation which would find me selling the M-D; it's practically the perfect digital-M for my needs and my likes.

Philip.

Edited by pippy
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Thanks Photonc,

above, Philip's listing , we already have 5 142 xxx and 4 983 xxx

so these numbers would not increase the "assuming" 1,400 units.

In my thinking, not so bad production number, a bit less than M4-2's 16k of two years production 1978-80.

Enough but not too many 😌 ( this means nothing ! ).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here is a raw list of full serial numbers from this thread, including 8 new ones I just found on a trawl of fredmiranda:

4982402
4982410
4982416
4982421
4982424
4982426
4983004
4983013
4983017
4983028
4983049
4983080
4983088
4983094
4987111
4987212
4987267
4987528
4987584
4987621
4987650
4987656
4998631
4998695
4998696
4998715
4998754
4998807
5142988
5142998
5143002
5150146
5150177
5150456
5150491
5153760

 

Edited by Datsch
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So I tracked down a bunch more serial numbers -- from flickr (The serial number appears in EXIF) and some more from photos of sold cameras.

This list continues to break down into the 14 batches we have previously identified.

There are 75 serial numbers in this list now. There were other mentions of M-Ds I we do not have serial numbers for, or where the EXIF was missing, so I estimate there are about 120 'sightings in the wild' as it were, or about 10% of our presumed total.

That means if there are 1400 total, then 90% of those do not post on flickr, or this forum, or have sold in the past year or two. What with the vast non-english speaking population in Asia and so on, I think this is plausible.

Anyway, here is the raw list for those that like to see for themselves ...

4982402
4982410
4982416
4982421
4982424
4982426
4982441

4983004
4983009
4983013
4983017
4983028
4983049
4983080
4983088        2016/04/19        
4983094
4983099

4987111          

4987212
4987230
4987248
4987259
4987267
4987293

4987501
4987513
4987519    
4987520
4987528
4987543
4987584
4987597

4987618        2016/05/24
4987621
4987636
4987650
4987656
4987658
4987675
4987676
4987694

4998618
4998631
4998633
4998639
4998685
4998695
4998696

4998715
4998717        2016/05/30
4998738
4998754
4998794
4998795
4998796
4998799

4998807             

5142951
5142971
5142988
5142995
5142998

5143002
5143008

5150122
5150146        
5150149
5150161
5150177        2018/06/28

5150414
5150422
5150456
5150491

5153753
5153760

 

I added birthdays / manufacturing dates where I found them ... nice to think of my camera being made one on the first warm days of spring, imbuing it with a sense of possibility and the unfolding of life and beauty ... 🤗

 

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21 hours ago, Datsch said:

...I added birthdays / manufacturing dates where I found them...

Interesting list you have managed to compile, Datsch, and thorough work!

Out of interest; where did you find the 'birthday' info? I've had a trawl through a few files from my own body and can see nothing more informative than its serial number (the 4th on your list).

Philip.

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On 6/22/2021 at 3:01 PM, pippy said:

Interesting list you have managed to compile, Datsch, and thorough work!

Out of interest; where did you find the 'birthday' info? I've had a trawl through a few files from my own body and can see nothing more informative than its serial number (the 4th on your list).

Philip.

Thanks! Rather unnervingly I enjoyed hunting down those numbers -- now I can see where trainspotters get their motivation -- shoot me!

The birthdate is on the buff-coloured cardboard outer packaging, you know the one that always rips. It might also be in the owner's manual, one of those slimmer volumes has a sticker on the inside back cover -- that may have the date too but I'm not home to check right now.

Some of the German dealers take pictures of the cardboard outer (can't find an m-d now, here is an M-P):

Edited by Datsch
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55 minutes ago, Datsch said:

Thanks! Rather unnervingly I enjoyed hunting down those numbers -- now I can see where trainspotters get their motivation -- shoot me!

The birthdate is on the buff-coloured cardboard outer packaging, you know the one that always rips. It might also be in the owner's manual, one of those slimmer volumes has a sticker on the inside back cover -- that may have the date too but I'm not home to check right now.

Some of the German dealers take pictures of the cardboard outer (can't find an m-d now, here is an M-P):

Ah! Thanks!

That explains why I couldn't see it anywhere in the EXIF data....

I've just had a look and the date-sticker is featured no fewer than four times on my 'stuff'.  Outer card box; main silver / black box; guarantee booklet and finally on the test certificate. All dated 2016/04/22. You could add that date/data for camera body 4982421......:)......

It would be interesting - in a Train Spotter type way - to know what date/s are attached to the three serials which predcede mine.

Philip.

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1 hour ago, pippy said:

I've just had a look and the date-sticker is featured no fewer than four times on my 'stuff'.  Outer card box; main silver / black box; guarantee booklet and finally on the test certificate. All dated 2016/04/22. You could add that date/data for camera body 4982421......:)......

Wow! I wasn't expecting your date to be later than that of a camera with a higher serial number ... 4983088   was born on  2016/04/19   a few days .before. yours ,,,

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1625791/0

 

Whatever, it looks like the bulk of M-Ds, the 498 and 499s, were born in a 6 week period around late April to May 2016 ...

Then I am guessing there was a break in production for two years until the shelves were cleared and all stock sold, and we had the final hurrah of the  514s and 515s. Likewise, it seems that early summer was the trigger for Leica to say -- "the sun's out, let's make some M-Ds !"

 

PS I would add your date to the list but I can't edit that post anymore for some reason ... I will be sure to include it if we get some more numbers and dates to warrant a relisting ...

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Datsch said:

Wow! I wasn't expecting your date to be later than that of a camera with a higher serial number ... 4983088   was born on  2016/04/19   a few days .before. yours...

Yes; I noticed that, too.

My guess (and it is only a guess) is that the full production run of 49824xx and 49830xx camera bodies were all assembled over a period of time and only when they were all ready for shipment were the stickers attached to the various boxes / guarantee cards / test certificates etc. without any real need to put the final 'units' in date order as regards their serial numbers.

Philip.

 

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On 6/23/2021 at 8:14 PM, Datsch said:

...it looks like the bulk of M-Ds, the 498 and 499s, were born in a 6 week period around late April to May 2016...

Just FWIW on the Wiki entry for the M-D Typ-262 they mention that the camera was released on the 28th April 2016 so that would tie-in very nicely with having production / packing dates (as mentioned) and stocks ready just a matter of ten days or so before 'The Day of the Great Unveiling'...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_M-D_(Typ_262)

Philip.

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New Batch!

I was curious about batches that might have gone to Asia and so not be showing up on our radar. I just found this:

5150200        Japan        https://www.mapcamera.com/item/3717011361613#

This is interesting to me as it is 00 which of course has to exist for batches of 100 (00 to 99).

But mostly, this is a new batch -- so that might revise our estimate of total made from 1400 to 1500 ...

It is hard trawling Japanese and Chinese websites without knowing the language though -- are there any speakers of those or other Asian languages who could help us by finding serial numbers of Leica M-D's that have come up for sale in shops or on forums?

Edited by Datsch
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