007 vs Hassy x1-D

[ZHNL]

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16 minutes ago, Sarnian said:

To quote Charles Dickens: It was the best of times, it was the worst of times. It certainly is the "best of times" for current S users who wish to pick up some S lenses for really good prices. These lenses will hold their own for years to come. On the flipside, it certainly is the "worst of times" for S users who wish to cash out. 

Because - and only because - the prices of second-hand S lenses have decreased in price so much I now have my dream set-up of S lenses: 24mm, 30-90mm and 120mm Macro. These cover every shooting scenario that I would reasonably find myself in. (The 70mm CS that I bought just recently I sold on to help fund the purchase of a second-hand 007). 

I am not a fan for their zoom. It handicaps the OVF shooting and lose the cinematic rendering of primes have.  Otherwise, yes you are right about S glasses. 35/70/120 are still the S set in my mind even I personally used 100cron the most due to ergo and focal length match with my other system.

None of 28-35 lenses I ever used render better than 35S. 

[aksclix]

Call me crazy but I grabbed the S 006 for 1995 and got a 2000 dollar 35 from mpb.. I wanted to wait till the end of the year and pick up an S 007 but what the heck.. I am sure I can resell the 006 for a couple hundred bucks lower when I am ready for the 007.. I have no need for this with all the other gear I have but this one’s for the passion and will be a keep-sake!! Now hoping that it’s a good piece..
 

thanks to @Sarnian I took his word on the new sensor in the $1995 model.. 

[Sarnian]

18 minutes ago, aksclix said:

thanks to @Sarnian I took his word on the new sensor in the $1995 model.. 

You have my word (I have put in bold the part about the $1,995 006 that you bought). Below is the e-mail response from Leica (cut & pasted exactly as received):-

Seria, Liberty <Liberty.Seria@leica-camera.com>

Fri 2/26/2021 8:18 AM

To:

You

Dear Mark,

Thank you for your inquiry.

According to our records, 4810099 was never been in our workshop and therefore still has the old version of sensor. 4686708 has the sensor replacement in June 2016. We started installing the new generation of sensor in March 2016.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / kind regards

Liberty Seria

Customer Care Representative

Leica Camera AG

Customer Care

Am Leitz-Park 5 / 35578 Wetzlar/ Germany www.leica-camera.com / Liberty.Seria@leica-camera.com Telephone +49(0)6441-2080-189 Fax +49(0)6441-2080-339

[Sarnian]

23 minutes ago, aksclix said:

I am sure I can resell the 006 for a couple hundred bucks lower when I am ready for the 007

You could probably make a profit, no? You essentially got a 006 with a new sensor for the cost of getting a new sensor fitted! 👍 

[aksclix]

1 hour ago, Sarnian said:

You could probably make a profit, no? You essentially got a 006 with a new sensor for the cost of getting a new sensor fitted! 👍 

Thanks for the email proof 😌 considering it’s 4+ years old.. not sure how much it has been used.. if this sensor gives me good results I may not even upgrade to s007..  but would be awesome to break even if I ever decide to swap for a newer model 

[Jeff S]

It seems Camera West, while a fine dealer, does not always list (or know) whether S bodies have new sensors, or if S lenses have received the ‘permanent’ AF motor fix.  In this case, it seems you greatly benefited cost-wise from Sarnian’s research, assuming all else is in order.
 

Leica Miami, on the other hand, usually charges more, but typically only lists S gear that has received all fixes, and often a CLA from Leica, with added warranty.  Unfortunately, their S inventory is not often as deep as a result. Likewise, Miami will only sell M9 bodies that have received the updated sensor and check from Leica or DAG.
 

Jeff

[aksclix]

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10 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

It seems Camera West, while a fine dealer, does not always list (or know) whether S bodies have new sensors, or if S lenses have received the ‘permanent’ AF motor fix.  In this case, it seems you greatly benefited cost-wise from Sarnian’s research, assuming all else is in order.
 

Leica Miami, on the other hand, usually charges more, but typically only lists S gear that has received all fixes, and often a CLA from Leica, with added warranty.  Unfortunately, their S inventory is not often as deep as a result. Likewise, Miami will only sell M9 bodies that have received the updated sensor and check from Leica or DAG.
 

Jeff

I have wondered about that too.. for lenses Camera West seem to mention if there's been a fix but for S bodies not so much! Last time I ordered an S006 from them, I had to email Leica like Sarnian did and check if there was a record of sensor replacement.. It did have the new sensor as well but there was a spot inside the viewfinder which bothered me and the body also had some paint chips peeling off.. That came at 3300 and, I didn't find the S investment that much of an asset since I liked the SL2 IQ better.. However, I couldn't pass up the marked down price of 1995, I acquired a charger for 80 bucks to go with a 35mm S lens for 2K.. a pretty decent deal $4.2K for the package.. and, I might be able to get back 85% of my investment if I plan to sell it

[John McMaster]

I suspect that they have so many S(007) bodies due to S3 upgrades?  Still not seen a used S3 for sale...

john

[dritz]

15 hours ago, aksclix said:

I have wondered about that too.. for lenses Camera West seem to mention if there's been a fix but for S bodies not so much! Last time I ordered an S006 from them, I had to email Leica like Sarnian did and check if there was a record of sensor replacement.. It did have the new sensor as well but there was a spot inside the viewfinder which bothered me and the body also had some paint chips peeling off.. That came at 3300 and, I didn't find the S investment that much of an asset since I liked the SL2 IQ better.. However, I couldn't pass up the marked down price of 1995, I acquired a charger for 80 bucks to go with a 35mm S lens for 2K.. a pretty decent deal $4.2K for the package.. and, I might be able to get back 85% of my investment if I plan to sell it

You liked the SL2 IQ better than an S006?  S007?  I ask because I have a bevy of S lenses for the SL601. I miss the IQ of the S bodies... To paraphrase Hamlet, the question is "To SL2 or SL2S? That is the question!"

[aksclix]

35 minutes ago, dritz said:

You liked the SL2 IQ better than an S006?  S007?  I ask because I have a bevy of S lenses for the SL601. I miss the IQ of the S bodies... To paraphrase Hamlet, the question is "To SL2 or SL2S? That is the question!"

I haven’t used the S 007 but the IQ of SL2 is definitely better than the S006. Again, this is based on how the images look on a 4K screen of sizes 28” and 75”.. I have not printed them. To me sharpness takes precedence over any other quality in an image. So, the SL2 tops at that. I did see a noticeable difference in color reproduction with both AWB and daylight setting.. the colors were slightly more pleasing on the S but the images were definitely softer. 
 

if megapixels don’t matter to you or if you don’t crop much, I’d actually prefer the SL2-S.. in fact I would love a second SL2-S camera for indoor concert shooting for its low ISO performance.. I do have a canon R6 and 28-70 f2 as well so I don’t quite need the SL2-S

 

i couldn’t be more happy with my SL2.. it has a couple of bad issues.. 1) it wouldn’t allow you shoot burst shooting or video if the battery power is insufficient (which has been discussed at length in another thread..) 2) AFc compatibility with 3rd part lenses and the lack of back button focusing with lenses like Panasonic 70-200 f2.8

these reasons pushed me to replace my Panasonic with the Leica 90-280.. expensive but a good trade off I guess especially if you manage to buy it used for cheap

 

i did use the first SL when I got it for a test drive 4 years ago and my D810 felt superior to that unfortunately 😌

Edited February 27, 2021 by aksclix

[mgrayson3]

9 minutes ago, aksclix said:

...

To me sharpness takes precedence over any other quality in an image.

...

Get a 100MP Fuji GFX and a few lenses. If that really is your most important criterion, you will be MUCH happier with the Fuji at a fraction of the cost.

Edited February 27, 2021 by mgrayson3

[aksclix]

1 minute ago, mgrayson3 said:

Get a 100MP Fuji GFX and a few lenses. If that really is your most important criterion, you will be MUCH happier with the Fuji at a fraction of the cost.

I’ve been a GFX user for nearly 2 years.. sold my 50r and waiting for my 100s.. I use multiple systems.. I am very happy with the IQ of the gfx.. I sold all my Nikon DSLR gear to move to Sony then sold a lot of my Sony gear to move to gfx.. now, I only have Sony a9 and the 200-600 for birding and an a7s2 with 28-135 power zoom for videos.. I won’t be upgrading that anytime soon.. 

[ZHNL]

43 minutes ago, aksclix said:

I haven’t used the S 007 but the IQ of SL2 is definitely better than the S006. Again, this is based on how the images look on a 4K screen of sizes 28” and 75”.. I have not printed them. To me sharpness takes precedence over any other quality in an image. So, the SL2 tops at that. I did see a noticeable difference in color reproduction with both AWB and daylight setting.. the colors were slightly more pleasing on the S but the images were definitely softer. 
 

if megapixels don’t matter to you or if you don’t crop much, I’d actually prefer the SL2-S.. in fact I would love a second SL2-S camera for indoor concert shooting for its low ISO performance.. I do have a canon R6 and 28-70 f2 as well so I don’t quite need the SL2-S

 

i couldn’t be more happy with my SL2.. it has a couple of bad issues.. 1) it wouldn’t allow you shoot burst shooting or video if the battery power is insufficient (which has been discussed at length in another thread..) 2) AFc compatibility with 3rd part lenses and the lack of back button focusing with lenses like Panasonic 70-200 f2.8

these reasons pushed me to replace my Panasonic with the Leica 90-280.. expensive but a good trade off I guess especially if you manage to buy it used for cheap

 

i did use the first SL when I got it for a test drive 4 years ago and my D810 felt superior to that unfortunately 😌

Not my experience. If pixel count is more important, then I think you made a wrong move to 006 and 35. 
The S combo has the most beautiful files I ever viewed or edited. 
I do have SL2 and 50s. 

Edited February 27, 2021 by ZHNL

[aksclix]

6 minutes ago, ZHNL said:

Not my experience. If pixel count is more important, then I think you made a wrong move to 006 and 35. 
The S combo has the most beautiful files I ever viewed or edited. 
 

Hey.. no! I didn’t get this combo for that.. Since I am buying this “again” I know what I am getting into.. for sharpness I already have other systems like I said. This combination is purely for pleasure and I know it won’t get used as much with the options I have.. it’s probably like one of those vintage cars people buy out of passion.. Honestly, I am aware that I don’t need half of what I own.. it’s a phase and it’ll pass 😂

[John Smith]

51 minutes ago, aksclix said:

I haven’t used the S 007 but the IQ of SL2 is definitely better than the S006. Again, this is based on how the images look on a 4K screen of sizes 28” and 75”.. I have not printed them. To me sharpness takes precedence over any other quality in an image. So, the SL2 tops at that. I did see a noticeable difference in color reproduction with both AWB and daylight setting.. the colors were slightly more pleasing on the S but the images were definitely softer. 

I think the images of the S system are softer than the SL2, probably because of the sensor/flange distance. That is one reason I decided to move from the S to the SL2. Now, if Leica came out with a mirrorless S4 . . . .  

[Sarnian]

1 minute ago, aksclix said:

it’s a phase and it’ll pass 😂

Sometimes you have to scratch the itch to get clear of it! 🤑

[aksclix]

4 minutes ago, John Smith said:

I think the images of the S system are softer than the SL2, probably because of the sensor/flange distance. That is one reason I decided to move from the S to the SL2. Now, if Leica came out with a mirrorless S4 . . . .  

+1, and if it’s almost as compact as the X1D.. I can see many switching back to Leica.. 😌 I would sell a lot of my gear to get that too.. 

[helged]

1 hour ago, John Smith said:

I think the images of the S system are softer than the SL2, probably because of the sensor/flange distance. That is one reason I decided to move from the S to the SL2. Now, if Leica came out with a mirrorless S4 . . . .  

This is exactly the reason that I actually prefer S over SL(2). I dont think the sensors are too different, but the lenses are somewhat different. Whereas SL-lenses represent modern optical perfection,  S-lenses have a little (older) Mandler-magic mixed into the equation. Both are excellent, but with differences.

[Jeff S]

3 hours ago, aksclix said:

Hey.. no! I didn’t get this combo for that.. Since I am buying this “again” I know what I am getting into.. for sharpness I already have other systems like I said. This combination is purely for pleasure and I know it won’t get used as much with the options I have.. it’s probably like one of those vintage cars people buy out of passion.. Honestly, I am aware that I don’t need half of what I own.. it’s a phase and it’ll pass 😂

Shame not to print those lovely files, S or SL2. That’s how they really shine, especially tonal transitions and feel, not just sharpness.   Otherwise, kind of like buying that vintage sports car with automatic transmission, or keeping it garaged.

Jeff

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[aksclix]

12 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Shame not to print those lovely files, S or SL2. That’s how they really shine, especially tonal transitions and feel, not just sharpness.   Otherwise, kind of like buying that vintage sports car with automatic transmission, or keeping it garaged.

Jeff

I’ll print if I click something I really like.. what’s the biggest you’ve printed with an S006? I have not printed anything larger than 24x36 and that was with D600/D810