Daedalus2000 Posted March 18, 2019 Share #21  Posted March 18, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) 8 hours ago, jaapv said: If one needs to crop the Q(2) on a regular basis, one is using the wrong tool anyway. Cropping is not a substitute for changing focal length. I do not really agree with these statements, they sound too restrictive and "pure", in reality most people crop their images and cropping a wider lens gives you the same field of view as a longer lens, just with lower megapixels. This is what cropped sensors do anyway. Having options and flexibility from the same camera is good and the increased megapixels of the Q2 gives you that. Say for example one wants a fixed 35mm/f2 full frame camera. Only Sony do that with the RX1 and RX1II, but using the Q2 as a 35mm camera gives you the equivalent of 35mm/f2.1 with 30 megapixels. Sounds good enough for me, especially with the added bonus of the 28mm/f1.7 when one needs it. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 18, 2019 Posted March 18, 2019 Hi Daedalus2000, Take a look here One Blogger's reasons for not buying a Leica Q2. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted March 18, 2019 Share #22  Posted March 18, 2019 You are missing the point - If you shoot regularly with different focal lengths, is is illogical to buy a fixed-lens/focal length camera. In the interest of flexibility, is is a good thing to have the option in such a camera, but, to me, that is as far as it goes. Quote Say for example one wants a fixed 35mm/f2 full frame camera. Basically your quote says it all. Why should you want a fixed-lens/focal length camera by adapting/cropping another one if one can have a 35 mm lens on an interchangeable lens camera? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMagoo Posted March 18, 2019 Share #23  Posted March 18, 2019 12 hours ago, nicci78 said: And he is right about one important thing : if you were not into the Q the first time, the Q2 will not make you change your mind. It is still a fixed 28mm with decent 35mm crop. No matter how good Q2 is. This fact will remain. 1 I disagree. The first Q didn't convince me. The Q2 really excites me. There is a huge difference in between: Q1: 24MP 28mm / 12MP 35mm / 6MP 50mm . & Q2: 47MP 28mm / 30MP 35mm / 14MP 50mm. It's not just a "decent" 35mm crop. You get more resolution at 35mm then you do at 28mm on the Q, and higher res than 35mm on an M10. And almost double resolution of both Q1/M10 at 28mm. That really changes the game. The DR is also substantially better than Q1. Basically Q2 has top of the line current sensor technology performance. We're talking D850/Z7/S1R level.  2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus2000 Posted March 18, 2019 Share #24  Posted March 18, 2019 3 hours ago, jaapv said: You are missing the point - If you shoot regularly with different focal lengths, is is illogical to buy a fixed-lens/focal length camera. In the interest of flexibility, is is a good thing to have the option in such a camera, but, to me, that is as far as it goes. Basically your quote says it all. Why should you want a fixed-lens/focal length camera by adapting/cropping another one if one can have a 35 mm lens on an interchangeable lens camera? I am not missing any point and my quote just says what it says, nothing more, nothing less. To prove that maybe you have not understood my point tell me another Leica option if I am interested in having a relatively small size Leica camera with autofocus, great image quality and the equivalent of 35mm/f2 lens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 18, 2019 Share #25  Posted March 18, 2019 Why must it be a Leica camera? Buy a camera that fits your use. The brand is wholly irrelevant. If it is the Q, fine. But that is not the point. The point is that buying a camera and having to crop on a regular basis to mimic different focal lengths is not very logical. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted March 18, 2019 Share #26  Posted March 18, 2019 44 minutes ago, Daedalus2000 said: I am not missing any point and my quote just says what it says, nothing more, nothing less. To prove that maybe you have not understood my point tell me another Leica option if I am interested in having a relatively small size Leica camera with autofocus, great image quality and the equivalent of 35mm/f2 lens. Leica CL street kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted March 18, 2019 Share #27  Posted March 18, 2019 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, MisterMagoo said: I disagree. The first Q didn't convince me. The Q2 really excites me. There is a huge difference in between: Q1: 24MP 28mm / 12MP 35mm / 6MP 50mm . & Q2: 47MP 28mm / 30MP 35mm / 14MP 50mm. It's not just a "decent" 35mm crop. You get more resolution at 35mm then you do at 28mm on the Q, and higher res than 35mm on an M10. And almost double resolution of both Q1/M10 at 28mm. That really changes the game. The DR is also substantially better than Q1. Basically Q2 has top of the line current sensor technology performance. We're talking D850/Z7/S1R level.  Numbers can be deceiving. I own a Q for 3.5 years. And shot more than 50K photos with it. I love the concept. But I can assure you that it is not a zoom. It is a 28mm fixes lens. 35mm is ok, but secondary  And 50mm is hard to use with small frame lines. 75mm is gimmicky with even smaller lines  Having more pixels, will not change anything. It is quite hard to see the world in 35mm when 28mm is presented to you all the time. Something like the M rangefinder  ? Really not at all. Get the real deal, or embrace the Q/Q2 for its amazing 28mm Edited March 18, 2019 by nicci78 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMagoo Posted March 18, 2019 Share #28  Posted March 18, 2019 16 minutes ago, nicci78 said: Numbers can be deceiving. I own a Q for 3.5 years. And shot more than 50K photos with it. I love the concept. But I can assure you that it is not a zoom. It is a 28mm fixes lens. 35mm is ok, but secondary  And 50mm is hard to use with small frame lines. 75mm is gimmicky with even smaller lines  Having more pixels, will not change anything. It is quite hard to see the world in 35mm when 28mm is presented to you all the time. Something like the M rangefinder  ? Really not at all. Get the real deal, or embrace the Q/Q2 for its amazing 28mm Have you tried the Q2? Because I have and cropping with so much resolution is quite nice.. and i'm usually not a fan of cropping images. So yes, having not just more .. but double the amount of pixels definitely changes things. Now obviously the main attraction is the full res 28mm Summilux. That is what I would use 90% of the time. 35mm/50mm are definitely ok though and the frame lines can actually be quite useful in street photography although a "zoom" view option would probably be nice. Anyways, I'm not here to argue with you.. YMMV concerning crop mode. It's certainly not the main feature I'm interested in personally. But this new Q2 sensor is really quite something imo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriepa Posted March 19, 2019 Share #29  Posted March 19, 2019 Agree with Dan and others that the blogger should have his say. But, in just two sentences jaapv has come to the crucial point better than the blogger did in 10+ pages: "If one needs to crop the Q(2) on a regular basis, one is using the wrong tool anyway. Cropping is not a substitute for changing focal length". Alas, after two years with the wonderful Q, I find myself guilty as charged. Cropping more often in post than is reasonable, I'm using the "wrong tool" as jaapv would say.  Spending a pile more to get the Q2 will not fix my basic problem. Maybe that nice CL? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazesus Posted March 19, 2019 Share #30  Posted March 19, 2019   "Shoot with what you feel is right not what others tell you is right."                                         — Classic Leica Q owner   3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leica Guy Posted March 19, 2019 Share #31  Posted March 19, 2019 12 hours ago, eriepa said: Agree with Dan and others that the blogger should have his say. But, in just two sentences jaapv has come to the crucial point better than the blogger did in 10+ pages: "If one needs to crop the Q(2) on a regular basis, one is using the wrong tool anyway. Cropping is not a substitute for changing focal length". Alas, after two years with the wonderful Q, I find myself guilty as charged. Cropping more often in post than is reasonable, I'm using the "wrong tool" as jaapv would say.  Spending a pile more to get the Q2 will not fix my basic problem. Maybe that nice CL? Another perspective. If you are cropping many photos and perhaps a lot, the Q(2) is a teaching tool. You still got the shots! Now realizing your tendency, consciously move closer when possible. Make that a part of your composition process. The Q(2) made you a better photographer. Q ON! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Q Posted March 19, 2019 Share #32  Posted March 19, 2019 14 hours ago, jaapv said: The point is that buying a camera and having to crop on a regular basis to mimic different focal lengths is not very logical. Why not? If I shoot mostly (say 70%) at 28mm and crop into 35-50mm on a regular basis (30%) that's considered illogical? That's how I shoot with all my primes to be honest. In fact, I consider my X1D and 21/4 (16.6mm equivalent) as a 16-24mm zoom. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted March 19, 2019 Share #33  Posted March 19, 2019 38 minutes ago, Mr.Q said: Why not? If I shoot mostly (say 70%) at 28mm and crop into 35-50mm on a regular basis (30%) that's considered illogical? That's how I shoot with all my primes to be honest. In fact, I consider my X1D and 21/4 (16.6mm equivalent) as a 16-24mm zoom. The cropping in Q (and X1D) simulates more different sensor sizes than different focal length. Disregarding the resolution, the image shot with XCD 30mm and XCD 21mm (cropped accordingly) look different, don't they? On the other hand, many people use a zoom mainly to create tighter/wider framing and they don't care about the change in DOF, compression, etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus2000 Posted March 19, 2019 Share #34  Posted March 19, 2019 23 hours ago, nicci78 said: Leica CL street kit. Unfortunately it does not have the equivalent of 35mm/f2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus2000 Posted March 19, 2019 Share #35 Â Posted March 19, 2019 8 hours ago, SrMi said: The cropping in Q (and X1D) simulates more different sensor sizes than different focal length. Disregarding the resolution, the image shot with XCD 30mm and XCD 21mm (cropped accordingly) look different, don't they? They will look the same if we do the right crop and adjust the apertures accordingly Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus2000 Posted March 19, 2019 Share #36  Posted March 19, 2019 23 hours ago, jaapv said: Why must it be a Leica camera? Buy a camera that fits your use. The brand is wholly irrelevant. If it is the Q, fine. But that is not the point. The point is that buying a camera and having to crop on a regular basis to mimic different focal lengths is not very logical. Ok, we are not going to agree and this is fine. But respectfully, I would like to point out again that someone says to you, "assume X then what about Y?" and instead of answering Y, you question X... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 20, 2019 Share #37  Posted March 20, 2019 No problem with me, disagreeing  But if the assumption is incorrect, surely the question is meaningless ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoySmith Posted March 20, 2019 Share #38  Posted March 20, 2019 I am considering the Q2 as a travel camera. The SL is just too large. I’m just finishing 2 weeks in the Scottish Highlands and is has rained a lot. I want a environmentally sealed camera for travel as I can’t pick the weather, and photos on wet days are appealing. On previous trips I’ve taken the M9 with a 28mm cron and a 50mm lux and found I used the 28mm 80% of the time. The other alternative is the Panasonic G9, but the Q2 would have better image quality. Roy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted March 20, 2019 Share #39  Posted March 20, 2019 On 3/19/2019 at 12:39 AM, MisterMagoo said: Have you tried the Q2? Because I have and cropping with so much resolution is quite nice.. and i'm usually not a fan of cropping images. So yes, having not just more .. but double the amount of pixels definitely changes things. Now obviously the main attraction is the full res 28mm Summilux. That is what I would use 90% of the time. 35mm/50mm are definitely ok though and the frame lines can actually be quite useful in street photography although a "zoom" view option would probably be nice. Anyways, I'm not here to argue with you.. YMMV concerning crop mode. It's certainly not the main feature I'm interested in personally. But this new Q2 sensor is really quite something imo. Of course I had. Been invited to try it the very first day for a 2.5h workshop around Paris with a Leica ambassador. With one Q2 lend for everyone. Huge files were overwhelming. 75mm not very practical. Q2 is very nice, but not nice enough for me to upgrade from my Q. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMagoo Posted March 20, 2019 Share #40  Posted March 20, 2019 1 hour ago, nicci78 said: Of course I had. Been invited to try it the very first day for a 2.5h workshop around Paris with a Leica ambassador. With one Q2 lend for everyone. Huge files were overwhelming. 75mm not very practical. Q2 is very nice, but not nice enough for me to upgrade from my Q. I think everybody agrees 75mm is mostly a gimmick. That isn't what you buy the camera for. As for the huge files being 'overwhelming' well that just depends on your computer/workflow. 16MB JPG / 80MB DNGs is no problem for me and I really appreciate the resolution increase. YMMV. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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