xiaubauu2009 Posted February 28, 2019 Share #61 Posted February 28, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) Backup... a backup system that has higher performance than the main camera system... hahaha 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 28, 2019 Posted February 28, 2019 Hi xiaubauu2009, Take a look here Is the S1/S1R a good backup camera for SL. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Chaemono Posted February 28, 2019 Share #62 Posted February 28, 2019 Well spotted fallacy. The answer to the OP’s question presupposes a prior answer to a prior question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caissa Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share #63 Posted February 28, 2019 More features is not everything. The SL has currently everything I need, so the S1 or S1R would only play the role of standing in as secondary camera. Other users might have other priorities... 👍😎 But maybe high resolution mode is so great that I will change my mind. But before having touched the new cameras, I would not want to place them before the SL. And maybe the SL2 is even more to my gusto, and the Panasonic cameras fall off the bandwagon completely ... Time will tell...🤞 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted February 28, 2019 Share #64 Posted February 28, 2019 If you really just need a backup I would rather buy a second (used?) SL. I assume the user interface will be quite different, so I am not sure its useful to switch back and forth between Leica body and Pana body. For my part I dont need a backup body/camera. but I additionally use a small medium format camera and a CL. SL for the fast things, CL for compact and small medium format for max. IQ and if I have time. I try to resist the S1r until I see how the SLII looks like and then decide if I stay with SL/SLII or if I switch to Panasonic body. I dont think I would use SL and Pana side by side. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caissa Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share #65 Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) The new APO Summicrons 35 and 50mm are close to becoming available, as their technical details (for the 35mm at least) are now described on the official Leica website. 👍 http://us.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-SL/SL-Lenses/Prime-Lenses/APO-Summicron-SL-35 http://en.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-SL/SL-Lenses/Prime-Lenses Edited February 28, 2019 by caissa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caissa Posted February 28, 2019 Author Share #66 Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) With the high res mode of the Panasonic S cameras (187 MP) I see no need for small MF anymore, their 50 MP has lost all attraction to me. Even 100 MP (of the future models) looks a bit ridiculous. And comparing prices (high camera price and a second line of costly lenses) and their relatively humble usability features (weaker EVF and slower reaction times), they are simply no match anymore in my eyes. I see no big problem in using SL and S1R side by side (with the infos from several reviewers, but of course I had no hands-on, yet) - currently I use SL and Canon 5Ds without too much confusion. 🤔 Edited February 28, 2019 by caissa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted February 28, 2019 Share #67 Posted February 28, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) 9 hours ago, xiaubauu2009 said: Backup... a backup system that has higher performance than the main camera system... hahaha Not sure that "performance" means the same thing for everybody. Sure, the S1 will probably go a stop or two higher in ISO (although the SL is already very good on that front). I doubt the differences will be noticeable at normal ISOs. Colour response will be a bigger differentiator. The two cameras will have similar video performance, until Panasonic releases their (paid) "10-bit internal" firmware upgrade. The S1 has a bigger battery, but the SL is rated for more shots. The S1 has a higher-res VF chip, but will it have the VF optics to go with it? The S1 will have better AF, but the SL has the best MF setup of any mirrorless camera. Given a choice between the two, I would reach for the one I know intuitively. The other can be the backup. The great thing is that you can now get a backup for the SL, at less than 2/3 the price of a used SL (never mind a new one). It makes the system a lot more attractive to those who absolutely have to bring a backup. Obviously, if the S1 or S1r has a "must-have" feature for your photography, the SL will be the backup. Or maybe you should sell the SL, get a second S1, and buy a Panasonic or Sigma lens with the money left over. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted February 28, 2019 Share #68 Posted February 28, 2019 vor 20 Minuten schrieb BernardC: The S1 has a higher-res VF chip, but will it have the VF optics to go with it? +1. A point missed by many except the reviewers who describe the S1/S1R EVF as ‘among the best’ or ‘close to the best’ they’ve used. Based on the VF chip specs, it should simply be the best by a mile. Let’s see what the SL2 delivers on this front. They may not even use the same VF chip as the Panasonic cameras. Theirs must be from Sony. I doubt Leica will go that way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted February 28, 2019 Share #69 Posted February 28, 2019 1 hour ago, caissa said: With the high res mode of the Panasonic S cameras (187 MP) I see no need for small MF anymore ... Am I right in thinking that the S1R's 187 MP is interpolated from pixel-shifting operations rather than 187 million separate photodiodes? If so, artefacts will inevitably be created in the split seconds between the pixel-shift pulses where objects move and change position relative to the particular pixels. Also, presumably, the software selects and if necessary corrects for what it believes to be the appropriate value of any discrete pixels in any of the 4(?) temporary rasters. This being the case, then the inter-aliasing artefacts are likely to be visible at some magnification and will render a less precise image at those points than a bona fide medium format image won't they? I understand your point but I'm not quite ready to write off the inherent benefits of medium format images just yet. Pete. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted February 28, 2019 Share #70 Posted February 28, 2019 Pete can be such a party pooper. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted February 28, 2019 Share #71 Posted February 28, 2019 18 minutes ago, Chaemono said: Pete can be such a party pooper. 😄 Unfortunately it quite often comes with the territory when you're a Professional Engineer. Pete. 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedro Posted February 28, 2019 Share #72 Posted February 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, farnz said: 😄 Unfortunately it quite often comes with the territory when you're a Professional Engineer. Pete. I am not an engineer (let alone professional) but I think that FF and MF even at the same exact MP will render differently 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted February 28, 2019 Share #73 Posted February 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Fedro said: I am not an engineer (let alone professional) but I think that FF and MF even at the same exact MP will render differently Certainly especially in dynamic range. larger pixels == less likely sensor well overflow. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caissa Posted March 1, 2019 Author Share #74 Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) Who has ever used a slower shutter speed to blur some part of the image knows that some artifacts are actually useful and wanted. It depends mainly on the cleverness (or instinct) of the photographer how to make best use of them. These artifacts are sometimes even the essence of an image, not just unwanted garbage. 😁🤔 Sensor well overflow .... 😂🤣 (In these old 33x44 sensors...) Who is afraid of well overflow ? If m43 can live with it, then certainly modern FF Sensors can live with it. Try to figure out what the difference in dynamic range is between these sensors. Describe it as a percentage. Compare it to the typical dynamic range of typical output media (print or screen). PS: I do not use Leica lenses because of “higher precision” - and I wonder, who would actually do that. ( I doubt that precision is a value in photographs, apart from repro shots). Edited March 1, 2019 by caissa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaubauu2009 Posted March 1, 2019 Share #75 Posted March 1, 2019 7 hours ago, BernardC said: Not sure that "performance" means the same thing for everybody. Sure, the S1 will probably go a stop or two higher in ISO (although the SL is already very good on that front). I doubt the differences will be noticeable at normal ISOs. Colour response will be a bigger differentiator. The two cameras will have similar video performance, until Panasonic releases their (paid) "10-bit internal" firmware upgrade. The S1 has a bigger battery, but the SL is rated for more shots. The S1 has a higher-res VF chip, but will it have the VF optics to go with it? The S1 will have better AF, but the SL has the best MF setup of any mirrorless camera. Given a choice between the two, I would reach for the one I know intuitively. The other can be the backup. The great thing is that you can now get a backup for the SL, at less than 2/3 the price of a used SL (never mind a new one). It makes the system a lot more attractive to those who absolutely have to bring a backup. Obviously, if the S1 or S1r has a "must-have" feature for your photography, the SL will be the backup. Or maybe you should sell the SL, get a second S1, and buy a Panasonic or Sigma lens with the money left over. Oh, I thought S1R is in the equation.... Hahaha. But do get your point. Just that newer sensor usually means better performance in terms of sensor performance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caissa Posted March 2, 2019 Author Share #76 Posted March 2, 2019 More photos in the S1R sample gallery (now 103), also some raws. https://www.dpreview.com/samples/8572834749/panasonic-s1r-sample-gallery-updated-with-raw-conversions 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted March 2, 2019 Share #77 Posted March 2, 2019 On 2/28/2019 at 7:03 PM, farnz said: Am I right in thinking that the S1R's 187 MP is interpolated from pixel-shifting operations rather than 187 million separate photodiodes? If so, artefacts will inevitably be created in the split seconds between the pixel-shift pulses where objects move and change position relative to the particular pixels. Also, presumably, the software selects and if necessary corrects for what it believes to be the appropriate value of any discrete pixels in any of the 4(?) temporary rasters. This being the case, then the inter-aliasing artefacts are likely to be visible at some magnification and will render a less precise image at those points than a bona fide medium format image won't they? I understand your point but I'm not quite ready to write off the inherent benefits of medium format images just yet. Pete. The actual resulting images from this technology do not show the startling increase in resolution that anyone reading the blurb would expect....... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardC Posted March 2, 2019 Share #78 Posted March 2, 2019 26 minutes ago, thighslapper said: The actual resulting images from this technology do not show the startling increase in resolution that anyone reading the blurb would expect....... Pixel shift technology is useful for two things: Photographing still subjects with a high risk of moire, such as fabrics and artwork Making a camera's specifications look more impressive Unfortunately, the second point seems to get a lot more publicity than the first. That's probably because it's a technology that (almost) nobody needs. I'm sure that quite a few catalog photographers are interested in the S1... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caissa Posted March 2, 2019 Author Share #79 Posted March 2, 2019 (edited) The release dates of the Sigma Art lenses have been published: Start in September, here the details. https://www.panasonicff.com/this-is-sigma-art-lens-l-mount-lens-roadmap-11-lenses-released-in-2019/ Edited March 2, 2019 by caissa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caissa Posted March 4, 2019 Author Share #80 Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) Two more videos about the S1 and S1R. Is this the perfect camera (Lumix S) ? Mainly talk (and quite nervously). https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F3jv_6Ahyb8 And a hands-on by Matt Granger (shot with S1). https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i_nv8lIo63Y And a review plus hands-on by cameralabs. https://www.cameralabs.com/panasonic-lumix-s1r-review/ Edited March 4, 2019 by caissa 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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