Monochrom Prices and Sensors

[MarkP]

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M10, which I love but which doesn't do b&w like the MM1.

I agree.

Edited February 24, 2019 by MarkP

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[fotografr]

I should have updated this a while ago. I've since purchased another M9M so am back in the game. I still have the M10, but use the M9M for all my b&w work (and once again love it).

[Kamurah]

Hello.  I have recently acquired a M9M that is *as new* from dealer (not an authorized Leica dealer unfortunately).  Zero activations, and has never had a lens on the body.  I have spoken with Leica repair to get the limiting parameters for the goodwill sensor replacement.  It came new in the box with all papers and undisturbed as far as I could tell.

It appears my camera was manufactured in 2013, and since the dealer I purchased from is not inside the Leica network, I would not fall under the umbrella agreement should sensor corrosion manifest.

However, I was told by Leica that if I send the camera in to be part of the Leica Certificate Program, they would (for a fee) do a an exhaustive inspection / CLA, notify me of any defects, and give me a cost estimate for repair.  They also said that the estimated sensor replacement cost would be around 1600 USD if it was found faulty.

At the end of this process, they will issue a Leica Certificate that the camera has been inspected, is free from defect, and meets original factory specification (if the sensor checks out and is does not need replacement / or after a defective sensor is diagnosed and replaced) and issue a 12 month warranty (which will, at that point, cover any possible sensor for corrosion for the next 12 months).

This seems like the way to go.  I am not sure at this point if I am going to keep this camera.  It is a truly unique instrument, but becoming fully vested in the Leica ecosystem would require a hefty cash outlay.  I managed to purchase this camera for a significant discount over what they go for....even used...and I currently have no M mount lenses to even attach to the body.

I once owned an M6 and 50mm, but sold the system many years ago...and while I dearly love Leica and everything about the brand...I am not sure I can justify holding on to this beauty.

 

Has anyone had any experience with the Leica Certificate Program?  Pros / Cons?

 

Thanks in advance!

Edited February 6, 2020 by Kamurah

[a.noctilux]

Hello Kamurah,

I don't understand what you want to do with the Monochrom with zero activation.

Do you want to use it ( nice move ) or just buy it to sell later ( bad move )?

[Kamurah]

38 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Hello Kamurah,

I don't understand what you want to do with the Monochrom with zero activation.

Do you want to use it ( nice move ) or just buy it to sell later ( bad move )?

I guess I was looking to see if:

a) If anyone had direct experience with the Leica Certificate Program, and if so, what was their impression?

b) If the general consensus was that I should use this camera (nice move?) or sell it after it returns certified from Leica (bad move?).....given the financial investment it will require.  I already own the camera...I am speaking about the financial investment in lenses, etc.

 

Thanks for your reply!

Edited February 6, 2020 by Kamurah

[a.noctilux]

I was lucky to have had my Monochrom with corrode sensor replaced in time with no charge.

Now, in your shoes, I'd use it with whatever lens you can buy in your budget.

In the case you want to sell it maybe not good idea to let Leica replace the sensor at a cost.

If not selling as is may be difficult or impossible as buyer would not take the risk.

 

I don't have better idea ( just a thought, Certificate from Leica or not, only replaced sensor can have a chance to be sold at right price).

[Kamurah]

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Thank you!  Valuable insight!

 

If what you say about the Leica Certificate (and 12 month warranty) having little impact on the value of the body is true, that puts me in a strange position.  You see, Leica will not replace the sensor unless there is corrosion  present.  I asked them if I could just send the camera to them, pay for the sensor upgrade out of pocket, so as to have ultimate peace of mind?

They said no.

They will not replace the sensor unless there is a problem....which seems absurd to me if I am the one willing to pay for the upgrade.

 

Thank you again.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Kamurah

[dkmoore]

1 hour ago, Kamurah said:

Thank you!  Valuable insight!

 

If what you say about the Leica Certificate (and 12 month warranty) having little impact on the value of the body is true, that puts me in a strange position.  You see, Leica will not replace the sensor unless there is corrosion  present.  I asked them if I could just send the camera to them, pay for the sensor upgrade out of pocket, so as to have ultimate peace of mind?

They said no.

They will not replace the sensor unless there is a problem....which seems absurd to me if I am the one willing to pay for the upgrade.

 

Thank you again.

It doesn’t make sense to me to pro actively replace the sensor in your case (my opinion). Even if it does eventually get corroded, the entire image isn’t ruined. You can easily fix in PP just like you do with dust spots. 
 

This is my recommendation because it sounds like you may end up selling the camera and you won’t recoup the $2k plus whatever you bought it for if you do in fact sell it. 
 

the M9 and especially the MM1 is the best way to enter the M system on a Budget because the IQ still stacks up, and the camera is pretty much as low as it will go for depreciation. The MM1 produces beautiful files that are almost as good as the M10M in my view, and better than the M246. 
 

the Leica certificate program has been around for at least as long as I’ve been a photographer (8 years). They just changed the marketing of it. Any time Leica works on your camera they provide 12 months warranty for adjustment. That has been my experience. 
 

the best option is to return it if you still can and use that money to find one with a replaced sensor. If the MM1 was new, I’m sure you paid more than it would cost to find a good unit with replaced sensor. 

Edited February 6, 2020 by dkmoore

[Kamurah]

@dkmoore:  Thank you for the perspective!

 

I got what can only be considered as a 'once in a lifetime' deal on this camera.  I bought it from a discount warehouse outlet (they obviously bought a 'pallet' of stuff from a camera store that was going out of business), where they obviously had no idea what the value of a Leica M was.  

I have checked...they are a legit business.  I also checked with Leica to make sure the serial had never been registered (i.e. I wanted to make sure this was not a stolen camera).

This sounds like boasting...and to a degree it is...because this sort of thing just does not happen to me. Ever.  I am still in shock.

I paid, in total, $246.00 USD for this camera.  Yes...the decimal is in the right place.  

I think it would easily fetch several times more than that if I sell it....even without the upgraded sensor.  I guess the real question is, ....if I decide to sell it, do I go ahead and send it in for the CLA and Cert (and risk having to pay for the sensor), or just post it as an unused body that is eligible for Leica warranty?

 

In reality, after cathartically posting and reading all this, I am leaning towards just keeping the body, going ahead with the Cert from Leica, and using it for its intended purpose.  I guess I will find a small used lens (even a cheapo) to start off with and save up for the better glass later on.

My only niggle is that it makes me sweat a little to handle a camera that once sold for 8 thousand dollars (regardless of its current value).  I was a professional photog for several years....and the closest I had to that much invested was in my Hasselblad system....but that was for the WHOLE system.  If I keep this camera, I want to ENJOY it...not worry every time I take it out that it will get bumped, dropped, or stolen.  I am retired now, so my income stream is nowhere near what would be required to purchase top glass for this camera.

Anyway....thank you for the post and the food for thought.  Much appreciated!

 

[Likaleica]

9 minutes ago, Kamurah said:

I paid, in total, $246.00 USD for this camera.  Yes...the decimal is in the right place.  

 

 

You just sent 12 Forum members to Hospital with chest pain.

[Kamurah]

3 minutes ago, Likaleica said:

You just sent 12 Forum members to Hospital with chest pain.

Oh trust me, when I saw the deal and bought the camera, I thought I was going to have to call 911!   😅

Literally, I was sweating, shaking, and could barely breathe.  Until the body actually arrived, I was 100% sure the seller would back out and refund my money, or even worse, I would end up opening a box with a 'picture' of a Leica Monochrom.

Like I said....this type of thing literally NEVER happens to me.  So I guess I can rest assured that my silver bullet was just shot.

 

[Kamurah]

Oops...I was off on my quote.  I didn't account for sales tax properly. Total was actually $256.79.    As you can see, I took screen shots because....well...I was just so positive this deal would not go through.  I had to document proof so at least I would have a good story to tell!

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[a.noctilux]

Really bargain, Kamurah.

👌

Some more thoughts.

Good news, if you want to use it or give it a chance to please you, even the 30 Euros ( Jupiter 8 , Russian made 50mm can give good results, even if the adapter LTM to M can be more money to add ).

Just look at it as a tool to create images at the money you've paid for it and relax using this nice Monochrom.

If the Monochrom won't please you, you can sell without loosing much (or gaining much either).

[mdemeyer]

I see no advantage to sending it in for certification.  If it’s working well, use it.  If the sensor fails, have it replaced.

[Kamurah]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

Good news, if you want to use it or give it a chance to please you, even the 30 Euros ( Jupiter 8 , Russian made 50mm can give good results, even if the adapter LTM to M can be more money to add ).

 

Thank you!  I have seen several of these for sale at very reasonable prices.  I think this indeed may be the way for me to get started.

[Likaleica]

2 hours ago, mdemeyer said:

I see no advantage to sending it in for certification.  If it’s working well, use it.  If the sensor fails, have it replaced.

Agree.  Not all the sensors were bad and you'll know it if it goes bad.  Keep your lucky streak going!

[Kamurah]

3 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Really bargain, Kamurah.

👌

Some more thoughts.

Good news, if you want to use it or give it a chance to please you, even the 30 Euros ( Jupiter 8 , Russian made 50mm can give good results, even if the adapter LTM to M can be more money to add ).

Just look at it as a tool to create images at the money you've paid for it and relax using this nice Monochrom.

If the Monochrom won't please you, you can sell without loosing much (or gaining much either).

Have you had experience with this particular lens (Jupiter 8)?

It looks like there is the potential for focusing errors on Leica cameras.  Is this a real problem or is this a Leica perfectionist OCD thing?  

That sounds snarky but I don't mean it to be.  Just trying to make sense of everything I have been reading.

[mmradman]

Did you check that camera actually works? Even without lenses you could  take the body cap off and take a shot, you should have well exposed blurry image of nothing on the back of your LCD.  Good proof it actually works.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[a.noctilux]

Jupiter lenses, I must be more careful to advice those 😰.

As everybody knows, there is no free lunch (or cheap lunch to be exact 🙃).

I must admit that those russian Jupiter are not (in most cases) meant to be RF used on Leica, because their rangefinder calibrations don't have

the same standard.

It's first (and last) time that I mention this lens (Jupiter 8) as cheap lens "but can give good results".

 

I have three Jupiter lenses to be used on my different Leica LTM and M.

Jupiter 8 (2/50) is the most "usable"as it's RF cal is "almost as good as Leitz/Leica" at f/2.8 onward and more than "good enough".

Meanwhile, the Jupiter 3 (1.5/50 ) has some flaws in RF coupling with Leica, and J9 (2/85) is not RF calibrated.

@Kamurah

At last, please forget my advice on Jupiter lenses and find something else which must be better RF coupling :

Voigtlander, Zeiss, Canon, M-Hexanon, etc. those that I happily use over time.

 

[BrnDslWgn]

12 hours ago, Kamurah said:

Oops...I was off on my quote.  I didn't account for sales tax properly. Total was actually $256.79.    As you can see, I took screen shots because....well...I was just so positive this deal would not go through.  I had to document proof so at least I would have a good story to tell!

 

What seller did you buy from? That's insane!