Long live the M-D!

[jmr237]

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Now that we have seen the M10-D, and its inelegant compromise between the original M-D concept and a full-fledged digital M, here's to the wonderful camera that is the original M-D. Looks like my M-D isn't going anywhere!

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[a.noctilux]

🙃

I keep my precious old M-D 👍

[hilm3]

Have to agree. I like the ISO dial where it is on the M-D. And on my film cameras, I wipe the wind lever back down after I cock the shutter. Don't find it comfortable as a thumb rest. Don't like thumb rests and grips at all, so there's that. So that "functionality" is pointless for me. The sensor on the new one looks nice. Not sure I need that much ISO sensitivity, though. Sure looks pretty, gotta admit.

[a.noctilux]

On 10/25/2018 at 12:01 AM, a.noctilux said:

🙃

I keep my precious old M-D 👍

😇 maybe not afterall.

Sorry, I'll change my mind in few days ... or not.

By now, I thougt I'll take time waiting for Monochrom M10-D, but if it never come waiting time may be too long.

In that "maybe-long waiting time", the M-D (262) value may drop significantly because of "old model M-D", and the trade in value may not be as interesting.

Edited October 26, 2018 by a.noctilux

[NigelG]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

the M-D (262) value may drop significantly because of "old model M-D", and the trade in value may not be as interesting.

I’m not convinced that this will happen anytime soon.

At the moment (and has been the case for a long time) no UK dealers have had any used M-D bodies. Reading the various threads I’m not sure lots of existing M-D owners are rushing to switch so I think the original may remain scarce and thus value will stay firm.

If one accepts the M-D sensor output as “good enough” (I do) then I can’t see a reason to ever upgrade  - unlike my “regular” Ms.......

Edited October 26, 2018 by NigelG

[Morry]

I even hesitate it to call it an upgrade because the two cameras are so different.

 

Not minimalistic any more.

 

Mine has black paint so it will be better to use it for long time to see it brassed out.

[a.noctilux]

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2 hours ago, NigelG said:

I’m not convinced that this will happen anytime soon.

At the moment (and has been the case for a long time) no UK dealers have had any used M-D bodies. Reading the various threads I’m not sure lots of existing M-D owners are rushing to switch so I think the original may remain scarce and thus value will stay firm.

If one accepts the M-D sensor output as “good enough” (I do) then I can’t see a reason to ever upgrade  - unlike my “regular” Ms.......

Nigel,

M-D output is good enough (even more than that sometimes).

You are right.

 

47 minutes ago, Morry said:

I even hesitate it to call it an upgrade because the two cameras are so different.

 

Not minimalistic any more.

 

Mine has black paint so it will be better to use it for long time to see it brassed out.

"Not minimalistic anymore" = what I think also.

But the possibility to use Visoflex 020 appealed to me a lot, as I use it frequently with regular M10 for "exotic photos/exotic gear".

Yes Black Paint is lovely.

My M-D began to brass and I feel happy that was my "job done with it".

 

Well this GAS will pass soon I hope 😇.

[NigelG]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

But the possibility to use Visoflex 020 appealed to me a lot, as I use it frequently with regular M10 for "exotic photos/exotic gear".

This is also sometimes my thought with the M-D but I generally will have an M240P body also for a visoflex with the 21SEM or if I need super accurate framing wth a 28/75 say.

I use the M-D generally only with 28/35/50.

I feel with the new model maybe Leica tried to engineer a “D” model which people could use as their only M with no “if only it did this....” but in the process lost its ‘focus’ (pun intended)

[a.noctilux]

Thanks everybody ☺️.

I'll keep M-D 262 for years to come.

Half-day GAS passed.

And with it, I will use what I have now with pleasure again 😎.

[IkarusJohn]

I never liked the M(240) - I thought it was clunky, full of compromise and “half-baked”.  It had lost its clarity of function, which was what the M cameras were all about to me.  While I supported the M-D version, because it was still an M(240) based camera, it didn’t appeal.

When the M10 came out, I was keen on an MD version.  I confess, I contacted Leica and suggested that an M10-D would be a great camera, particularly if they retained the option to use the EVF (for framing and critical focus) and the WiFi function for remote triggering of the shutter (something available, and invaluable, on the TL2 & SL) and setting critical menu items you would ordinarily use the LCD for.  That way, you had the “purity” of an LCD-less M10, with the option when needed.  Leica said, great idea.

Now, I know that I am contradicting myself when I applauded the removal of video, but if you’re not using the EVF or the WiFi, the M10-D is exactly what the M60 and M-D were before it.  If you were speccing an M-D version of the M10, why is this new camera any less valid than the variants others might prefer?

The thumb rest lever is challenging, I admit; but otherwise if you’re not using the WiFi or the EVF, the M10-D looks to me like a perfect M10 version of the M-D.  If you have the M-D, I can understand the new camera might not be enough of a change to warant an upgrade, but is that a bad thing?  I guess many would prefer the camera to be further stripped back to what the M Edition 60 had, and I would agree.  But making a production camera based on the M60, using the M10 as a base, is something else entirely - you didn’t have that with the M-D either.

Cheers
John

[Exodies]

I am astonished that you consider optional use of an EVF is ok but optional use of the LCD is not.

[IkarusJohn]

6 minutes ago, Exodies said:

I am astonished that you consider optional use of an EVF is ok but optional use of the LCD is not.

Why?

I don't like the look of the LCD, I don't like the use of it, I rarely use it and over 90% of the time I wouldn't use the EVF.  Now, if you think the difference between having the LCD on the back of the M10-P and not having it on the back of the M10-D is effectively the same, that's fine.  I prefer not to have the LCD, and having had one LCD-less camera, I speak from reasonable experience for me.

Or, put another way, I can remove the EVF (and I see using it only for problematic lenses like the 21mm and 135mm lenses), so most of the time the camera won't have an EVF; whereas I couldn't remove the LCD if I had na M10-P.  What's astonishing about that?

Edited October 27, 2018 by IkarusJohn

[Exodies]

You ask why. I am unable to fathom the desire for a D version of digital M.

I can understand not wanting to fiddle with menus or chimp while out shooting. Just don’t then; that doesn’t necessitate a D.

But the argument previously went that not being able to fwm or chimp was superior to not fwming or chimping.

This didn’t mean anything to me but at least it was a coherent mental state.

However that coherence vanishes if one accepts optional EVF and phone tethering.

Apparently all we are left with is the unpleasant look of an LCD. A flat smooth panel on the back of the camera.

That’s why.

 

I know you never promised to be coherent but for some reason I tend to expect it from people. Even though I can’t always manage it myself.

[LocalHero1953]

9 minutes ago, Exodies said:

...........................................................

I know you never promised to be coherent but for some reason I tend to expect it from people. Even though I can’t always manage it myself.

I think you have just discovered the reason internet forums exist, and why Leica survives and is apparently profitable in the C21. 

People are not coherent or rational in their thinking, even though we pretend that is what distinguishes us from the rest of the animals. That's why I buy Leicas, that's why we have a M10-D with a wind-on lever (and don't forget the base plate). 

[IkarusJohn]

Exodies - no, I asked why you were astonished. 

I don’t think I can improve on the explanation I’ve given. There is no option to take the LCD off the M10-P, where as the EVF is optional, as is using the WiFi on either camera. What the M10-P can’t offer is the LCD-less option. So, I guess the whole idea of the M60, M-D and the M10-P “astonishes” you.  That’s okay, by the way.  When the M60 broke cover, I found it intriguing.

[poli]

After all this flirting with the new M10-D I treated my M-D on some bling (a new strap and soft release button). Not very minimalistic, but enjoying it

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[plaidshirts]

On 10/26/2018 at 6:59 AM, Morry said:

I even hesitate it to call it an upgrade because the two cameras are so different

 

Agreed. Simplicity and similarity to the film experience (no chimping, only shoots in RAW so you have to "develop" it to see, etc.) were what drew me to the M-D.  With the M10-D, the argument of "just turn the screen off" seems to become more valid to me.

I don't own an M10 so I'm curious, does the D function the same as an M10 with the difference of an off-body screen (phone) and the fake film advance lever? If there are technical differences, what are they?

[Morry]

9 hours ago, plaidshirts said:

Agreed. Simplicity and similarity to the film experience (no chimping, only shoots in RAW so you have to "develop" it to see, etc.) were what drew me to the M-D.  With the M10-D, the argument of "just turn the screen off" seems to become more valid to me.

I don't own an M10 so I'm curious, does the D function the same as an M10 with the difference of an off-body screen (phone) and the fake film advance lever? If there are technical differences, what are they?

As long as current sources are concerned they are exactly the same.

 

We can modify whatever in the setting but mostly via smartphone app.

 

Now it looks to be one of the top of M line product together with M10-P.

 

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[kentishrev]

I tend to agree. I bought the M-D as the ‘just turn off the LCD’ was simply something I never quite manage. The M-D is a beautiful camera that inspires me to take it out and shoot, and the lack of ‘extras’ forces me to think more carefully.

I have a CL if I know I’ll need it (but very rarely take both out at the same time).  

The M10-D is a screenless M10, and the ability to adjust settings, and view photos would be too tempting for me. I also prefer the look of the M-D and the back ISO.

Can I count this as a ‘saving’?

[Dr No]

I see no LCD but EVF for framings with wider lenses as different things.

I also see that if you take the EVF off or not to buy it then you do not know it even exists.

Shame about the silly lever though.