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Any news about the full frame Sigma Foveon L-mount camera?

saxo

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saxo

saxo

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Sigma announced an L-mount full frame camera with Foveon sensor.

This exciting information seems to have been lost, while everybody talks about the announced panasonic cameras.

 

For landscape photography, this Sigma camera could be a great option.

 

Any details/specs known?

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farnz

farnz

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For some years I've had a Sigma SD-14, which had a Leica R-mount installed, and was extremely impressed with the pictures from the Foveon sensor whose colours seemed much brighter than those from sensors with a Bayer Array so I'm certainly interested.

 

Pete.

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finarphin

finarphin

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A full frame foveon sensor.  I'm waiting for this.  It took time to wade through the various announcements at Photokina; I was very much distracted by the Fuji and then the Panasonic news.  I didn't even know what a foveon sensor was, or how it was different.  Now I've seen some examples and I like what I see.

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saxo

saxo

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We do have to take into consideration, however, that some M lenses will almost certainly show strong vignetting on a Foveon sensor.

 

True for some M-lenses, mostly wideangle, but others will do and don't forget about the R-lenses, the SL-lenses, the forthcoming Panasonic lenses and the Sigma lenses. I believe, this will do. The advantages of a Foveon sensor for landscape photography outweights the disadvantages IMHO.

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AlbertTRAL

AlbertTRAL

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No, the physical depth of the three-layered senseless.

Interesting, we should keep an eye.

 

If I am not terribly mistaken, the height of a CMOS or CCD sensitive layer should be around 3um (very aprox and depending on manufacturers and technologies), and to this we should add the bayer filter, let's say 1um (also rough order of magnitude). The red layer in a Foveon is roughly as the total layer in a cmos, plus the green and the blue layers that both together are slightly less than the red one, let's say 3+2=5um vs 4um of a cmos, so it is a 20% less...

 

Maybe can be corrected with dedicated microlenses? Interesting point to follow this of the possible vignetting... hopefully coming soon to our theater... ;-) :-)

 

In comparison film is in the area of 20/25um... although it can drop even to half depending on parameters such as the sensitivity... but let's say it's above digital sensors.

Edited by AlbertTRAL
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jaapv

jaapv

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Yes, but film is continuous, so it does not "channel" the light. Sensels are in a grid and suffer from vignetting with the acceptance angle and crosstalk. I don't think Sigma has any interest in investing in technology to accommodate M lenses, and Leica's microlens technology is patented.

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AlbertTRAL

AlbertTRAL

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Well, I understand what you mean, but I think that it is not really a question of "accommodating M lenses" as a target by a manufacturer, it is really tweaking the complete sensor stack with the target to achieve the desired performance with "symmetrical" or "symmetrical modified" lenses that will permit the lens manufacturer to propose smaller and lighter lens (this is the case of the M's) intrinsically with less aberrations by design than retrofocal or more telecentric designs, that need to grow to compensate these mentioned aberrations, but being also the simplest way to cope with the "channelling" of the sensels in digital (because of the "reduced" incidence angle), but not really the most elegant or smart solution because this implies a direct growth of the lens, in weight and volume...

 

But having said this, I think that there are some out there (and not few) that feel good "showing" their huge "cans"... let's see what will be the outcome, we will take it as it comes, as always... in front of all this new announcements, I have just decided to adopt a Leica 0-series OB, that includes in the package an "antiobsolescence" vaccine, jejeje.

Edited by AlbertTRAL
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lct

lct

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R lenses won't have the same problems as M's as regard the sensor stack's thickness hopefully. I had no issue on my old 5D1 except with the R 28/2.8 v1 which produced smeared corners at full aperture but the latest version of this lens worked fine actually.  Using the latter and my favorite 35/2, 50/2, 60/2.8, 90/2,180/3.4 and 280/4 R lenses would be a dream on a Foveon sensor.

Edited by lct
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jankap

jankap

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I don't think Sigma has any interest in investing in technology to accommodate M lenses, and Leica's microlens technology is patented.

 

We should not underestimate the value of the Leica lens park. I remember the Ricoh GXR M-mount.

Jan

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rosuna

rosuna

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There's some news in this Petapixel link, which says that the Sigma L-mount cameras will launch some time in 2019.  It'll be an odd-looking camera if it turns out to be like the picture in the link.

 

Pete.

 

 

That is the picture of an actual camera, the Quattro Pro. The name is uglier than the camera. The sensor was a new generation Foveon, APS-H size if I remember well. 

 

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sigma-sd-quattro-h 

 

Sigma's CEO said the real problem with Foveons is the processing of the image. Current processors (or software tools associated to them) are optimized for typical Bayer sensors, and Foveons need a different type of algorithms. It is not easy to get the final RAW image from a Foveon. That is the reason the cameras are slow. 

 

There are other problems with the Quattro Pro. The Foveons also have difficulties with higher ISO values (maybe related to the processing problem above) but the mount was the worse problem of those cameras. The SA mount was for reflex cameras. Mirrorless are different.

 

Sigma probably worked on those problems and the L-mount camera will be totally different than the ugly Quattro. Better sensors and processors, mirrorless mount... this may be a really great camera for studio or landscapes. I would bet for a large camera, but with "normal" look. Something like the Panasonics but with a more simple interface. 

 

This L-mount platform is strong if the three partners offer different (and complementary) things, and the Foveons are more interesting -for me- than Sigma lenses. The stronger point of Panasonic is video and Leica's is optical excellence and maybe a touch of design and good taste. 

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lct

lct

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[...] Sigma probably worked on those problems and the L-mount camera will be totally different than the ugly Quattro. Better sensors and processors, mirrorless mount... this may be a really great camera for studio or landscapes. I would bet for a large camera, but with "normal" look. [...]

 

Ugliness is in the eye of the beholder. ;) As far as size is concerned, i'd prefer an Ugly Duckling Quattro  to any Godzilla SL or S1 personally. YMMV.

Interesting comparo between SL, S1R and Nikon Z7 here: http://l-forum.com/index.php?threads/panasonic-s1r-vs-nikon-z7-vs-leica-sl-cameras-size-comparison.312/

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