Different versions of Leica M Film Reminder rear door

[GreenRiverBoy]

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Had this posted in the wrong forum.

 

Hello Everyone,

 

This is more of a historical interest but does anyone happen to know the differences in the film reminder back pressure plates on the Leica M's? I have noticed that some have a high ASA of 200 while others are as high as ASA1300. I think I saw somewhere that one had a high ASA of 1000 but can't remember with clarity.

 

I have a early M3 with a glass pressure plate and the film reminder is the type with high ASA of 200. Anyway, I was just curious as to when the changes took place and how many different types there were. Thanks for any information.

tim

[willeica]

According to an article by Bawendi (possibly in Vidom - the German Leica Society magazine), the film reminder of the M3 up to SN 785800 had a max of 200 ASA, from 785800 to 963000 it had a max of 1000 ASA and, thereafter, up to the end of production it had a max of 1300 ASA.

 

William

Edited September 15, 2018 by willeica

[GreenRiverBoy]

William,

Thanks so much!

[mikemgb]

My 1960 M2, 1013xxx has a high ASA of 1300 which fits exactly with William's information.

[wlaidlaw]

I think another difference is in the material. At various times Leica appears to have used either aluminium or silvered plastic. I have just looked at my very late M3 (1966), very early M4 (1967) and M4-P. They all appear to have identical aluminium film reminder plates going up to 1300 ASA. The back door on the M4-P was a spare part in a Leica bag with a part number on it, as I was unable to locate a replacement film reminder and the vulcanite was missing as well. So if anyone is desperate for an M4 back door (fits all models of M4) and can live without the film reminder, I have a spare. You can buy replacement self adhesive, pre-cut, vulcanite or leather covers from Hugo Studio or Aki Asahi but as I said, not the whole film reminder discs. DAG has the transfer for the rotating centre. 

 

Wilson

[GreenRiverBoy]

I suppose I have another question relating to the back doors. On my M4 which is from the first batch of 3000 in 1967, the black paint is glossy. I've noticed other M4's (and I think were later models) with a more matte luster black finish and was wondering if my M4 rear door is possibly from a later m3 or m2. Does anyone happen to have a m4 to compare? My sn is 11777xx. 

 

Also, my m4 has the inscription of "open/close" "anf/zu" like on the m3's and m2's; do you guys think this is correct? All the M4's and Mda's I've seen online seem to be the variant without the wording. It does have the plastic round thingy on it that mates with the film prongs in the camera by the way.

[jerzy]

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back to M3 back door - there are more differencies within early cameras.

SNs are after Bawendi (same article which Wilson mentioned)

- 2 steel, spring loaded balls, one each side, up to 844000

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- distance between the bolts (A) smaller up to 854000 or possible even 919000

-  width of vulcanite ("B") - this is something what Bawendi missed in his article, if this goes together with narrower A I cannot confirm, all my M3 with narrow A have narrower vulcanite (77,5mm), wider vulcanite is 78,5. But I have a gap between 710xxx and 915xxx, all below 710xxx have narrower vulcanite

This might be important if you order replacement leatherette, Aki Ashai is aware, not sure of other suppliers are

[wlaidlaw]

Also don't the early M3 doors have a glass pressure plate? 

[willeica]

I think another difference is in the material. At various times Leica appears to have used either aluminium or silvered plastic. I have just looked at my very late M3 (1966), very early M4 (1967) and M4-P. They all appear to have identical aluminium film reminder plates going up to 1300 ASA. The back door on the M4-P was a spare part in a Leica bag with a part number on it, as I was unable to locate a replacement film reminder and the vulcanite was missing as well. So if anyone is desperate for an M4 back door (fits all models of M4) and can live without the film reminder, I have a spare. You can buy replacement self adhesive, pre-cut, vulcanite or leather covers from Hugo Studio or Aki Asahi but as I said, not the whole film reminder discs. DAG has the transfer for the rotating centre. 

 

Wilson

 

Just to throw in a few curved balls, the M4-P, unlike the M4, had a grey film reminder which you could write on and not a wheel similar to the M3. I do have an M3 , though, with the 'write upon' film reminder from an M4-P, probably a replacement. Jerzy is right about the Bawendi article insofar as it points out many other variations in the M3 as production progressed. This is similar to the work done by Angela von Einem in respect of the I Model A. However, it seems that other variations are there to be discovered still, such as Jerzy's examples above in respect of back doors. Tracking these takes some work to avoid concluding any variations on the basis of 'one offs ' and alterations made by repair people, such as my M4-P door on an M3.

 

William

[Pyrogallol]

Does anyone actually use the film speed reminder?

[romualdo]

Does anyone actually use the film speed reminder?

Yep, I set on my IIIg, M3 & MP

 

BTW my 1962 M3 has an aluminium reminder that runs to 1300 while the IIIg (1957) has max setting of 1000ASA (aluminium)

[wlaidlaw]

Does anyone actually use the film speed reminder?

 

Yes me too. As it can be some months between using my 15 film Leicas, I forget what film I have put in them. For my Barnacks I print a film spec on a white paper tape in a Dymo Printer and stick it on the bottom plate. 

 

Wilson

[david strachan]

Ditto.

With Barnack camera, and M6, cut a piece off the film box and stick it to the camera base with clear tape.

 

...

[willeica]

I never use a film reminder even on cameras which have them. I have a very large number of film Leicas, most of them LTM models. I would usually have no more than two cameras with film in them and I usually use Portra 160 which I finish in one or two shooting sessions. One issue which I came across last week when using I Model A SN 1661 with modern Portra is that I had to change the cassette retaining clip as the one in the camera was the long curved one for FILCA cassettes which would not allow modern film cassettes to be used. The behind the lens shims in the camera had expanded with age. This caused the lens to pop off in mid roll when I started to use it. I had to take the camera home and do a quick repair job. The shims were 4 or 5 extremely thin metal rings (painted white or cream) behind the lens which were designed to keep the lens at the right distance to ensure focus at the film plane. Despite the mishap and the subsequent work, there was not a trace of a light leak on the film, which says a lot for a shutter that was made in 1926. The photo below was taken with my 92 year old camera on modern Portra 160 film. It may not be the best photo in the world, but the adventure in getting it made it very worthwhile to me. With ISO 160 film I either meter separately for that or use the M10 at ISO 200 to give an exposure reading.

 

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William

 

PS the lens on this camera is the very earliest iteration of the Elmar. Some say that a few very early Elmars were renamed Elmax lenses, but I would have to take this one apart to find out.

Edited September 17, 2018 by willeica

[GreenRiverBoy]

Thanks for all the info everyone. 

 

William, beautiful photo; slightly squinting my eyes it looks like a 19th-century impressionist painting. Certainly looks like a Leica image to me also!