New Panasonic Full Frame with SL Mount?

[Guest]

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That is interesting, perhaps explains new cooperation strategies.

 

for those not conversant with German or Google Translate it reads:-

The licensing strategy is a good one though...L mount, M240, etc...selling intellectual property is probably a very profitable way to go

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[mmradman]

The licensing strategy is a good one though...L mount, M240, etc...selling intellectual property is probably a very profitable way to go

Agree, but somehow i can't see royalty revenue subsidising production line or even design office staff.  Company still need to have current and desirable products to sell. 

[BernardC]

Leica never communicated who builds the SL lenses for them. Some time ago I read a speculation that it is Sigma but Leica refuses to comment. Now it makes all sense. Camera from Pana and lenses from Sigma.

 

Whoever make the lenses are subcontractors working to Leica's specifications and subject to Leica's QC. It doesn't matter who else they sub-contract for, or if they sell lenses under their own brand. The lenses that these subcontractors make for Leica will have a different bill of materials, different tolerances, and different QC, compared to lenses made for other brands.

 

This reminds me of an article explaining that the interiors of the Mercedes S-Class limousine and of the cheapest European minicar are designed and made by the same sub-contractor. People love to anthropomorphize companies, saying that "brand A does not know how to make interiors as well as brand B." Reality isn't quite so simple. In that case, the quality of the end product depends mostly on cost factors: materials, assembly time, precision, QC.

 

Sigma, Tokina, Cosina, and others you've never heard of, are quite capable of producing high-end products. We can see that in their cinema lines. What has historically held them back is their ability to sell high-end products at a profit under their own brands.

[jonoslack]

I’m not sure about “healthy”. The management report states “Im Lagebericht gibt es demnach die zusammenfassende Aussage, dass der Vorstand mit der Umsatz- und Ertragsentwicklung nicht vollständig zufrieden sei.”

 

The licensing growth is very “healthy” though

Hi Jono

Nice to meet another one!

Thank you for that. Let’s hope that the L mount co-operative sorts out that problem. Certainly the SL seems like a much healthier proposition today than it did last week!

[mmradman]

Hi Jono

Nice to meet another one!

Thank you for that. Let’s hope that the L mount co-operative sorts out that problem. Certainly the SL seems like a much healthier proposition today than it did last week!

Choice is great, i have one Jono to agree with.

[bags27]

And we must continue to appreciate that Blackstone is trying to sell its 44-45% (I've seen both figures) share of Leica. So, they want the highest possible market valuation right now. Not that it's really that big a deal to them: 45% of Leica is a rounding error for Blackstone (around 1/10 of 1% actually).

[jonoslack]

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Agree, but somehow i can't see royalty revenue subsidising production line or even design office staff. Company still need to have current and desirable products to sell.

I do agree, and I think they already have that, especially with the M10, M lenses, and now, after this news, I would expect the L mount lenses to sell well (especially the splendid full frame lenses) ....... and if you think theyre big, it’s worth noting that the new Sigma 40 f1.4 weighs in at 1.2kg! .....

The SL2 should do well, and if it’s as good as it should be then really well!!

[mmradman]

I do agree, and I think they already have that, especially with the M10, M lenses, and now, after this news, I would expect the L mount lenses to sell well (especially the splendid full frame lenses) ....... and if you think theyre big, it’s worth noting that the new Sigma 40 f1.4 weighs in at 1.2kg! .....

The SL2 should do well, and if it’s as good as it should be then really well!!

In my case Leica may be victim of its own excellence, I have all the lenses i need and want, all M and R and hardly to brake due to electronic rot, my lens GAS was last time satisfied [in 2018] with purchase of Summaron 35mm made in 1960.  I prefer to manually focus so i have no need or desire for AF-L lens, even cheaper future Sigma, I do acknowledge L lens are optically superb.  

[dkCambridgeshire]

The licensing strategy is a good one though...L mount, M240, etc...selling intellectual property is probably a very profitable way to go

 

 

 

It's likely not just intellectual property. Panasonic has stated they are entering the FF professional market not just with cameras/lenses but also with worldwide FF professional service back-up. Given current PanaLeica cooperation, Leica FF camera and lens servicing could also be offered by Panasonic … and also by Sigma i.r.o. Sigma 'L' mount lenses. 

 

dunk 

[dkCambridgeshire]

In my case Leica may be victim of its own excellence, I have all the lenses i need and want, all M and R and hardly to brake due to electronic rot, my lens GAS was last time satisfied [in 2018] with purchase of Summaron 35mm made in 1960.  I prefer to manually focus so i have no need or desire for AF-L lens, even cheaper future Sigma, I do acknowledge L lens are optically superb.  

 

 

Leica seek a larger share of the professional FF AF mirrorless market. Leica manual focus lens enthusiasts will continue to be supported in their smaller market sector … but it's the potentially larger 'L' AF sector which will generate sales revenue … provided Panasonic and Sigma make their very necessary contributions.

 

dunk 

[Guest]

Hi Jono

Nice to meet another one!

Thank you for that.

For my sins, I also go by Jo, Jonny as well as Jonathan so I guess I can get an admin to change if it’s confusing ?

 

[bags27]

It's likely not just intellectual property. Panasonic has stated they are entering the FF professional market not just with cameras/lenses but also with worldwide FF professional service back-up. Given current PanaLeica cooperation, Leica FF camera and lens servicing could also be offered by Panasonic … and also by Sigma i.r.o. Sigma 'L' mount lenses. 

 

dunk 

I think this could be really important. We live in a world of consumer satisfaction, and there is often great frustration with the length of time it takes Leica to fix something. Outsourcing this might be better for everyone, but it will take a fundamental change in Leica's philosophy, to give up at least some control over determining what's their liability and what's the consumer's, since with such expensive gear there are so many difficult questions of responsibility.

[lct]

Panasonic doing Leica's QC... Too good to be true.

[jaapv]

If Panasonic would start hand-assembly, the boot would be on the other foot

[Keith_W]

In before "My 1845 Daguerrotype pinhole camera fulfils all my photographic needs, I have no need for a stinking Panasonic". 

[mmradman]

In before "My 1845 Daguerrotype pinhole camera fulfils all my photographic needs, I have no need for a stinking Panasonic". 

What was 1845 equivalent of the internet?

[Clactonian]

I have been reading this thread and others with amusement since the start of Photokina and cannot help but conclude that many of our correspondents know far more about the company than Dr. Andreas Kaufmann. Really? Get real people, this guy is no slouch, if the current licensing arrangements are deemed by him and the board as  a sensible move under the current climate then what right have we as mere observers to query his motives or strategy just because it may not suit us? Do we know more than him? I would suggest no.

Yes, we obviously care passionately about a brand we have come to love but it is not our money at risk. I would suggest that we should be grateful that we have a board at Leica that is prepared to think outside the box in order to see both profitability and longevity in the brand.

[bags27]

By that logic, every reasonably intelligent CEO always makes the right decisions and is therefore exempt from criticism by consumers, stockholders, and boards of directors....But honestly, if you read the entire thread, I think you'll find that most posters are excited by the new direction, and pretty much do agree with you.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Clactonian]

By that logic, every reasonably intelligent CEO always makes the right decisions and is therefore exempt from criticism by consumers, stockholders, and boards of directors....But honestly, if you read the entire thread, I think you'll find that most posters are excited by the new direction, and pretty much do agree with you.

 

You are of course quite correct and I have made many a bum decision in my time, but those decisions were based on the full facts available to me at the time and not what others surmise or would personally prefer. I did say many not most, but maybe I read too many threads on lesser sites than this!

Given the current state of play I'm happy to give the Leica board the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks for your response.

[MRJohn]

I don´t understand the math with this win-win-win l-mount alliance: Sigma is selling more lenses and cameras, Panasonic is selling more lenses and cameras, Leica is selling more lenses and cameras - really? If I buy my next body from Panasonic I am not buying it from Leica... yet I suppose I could still buy it from Leica but then I would not buy it from Panasonic. Let's see in 5 years...