M10 to M10-P (rumored) Upgrade Program

[jaapv]

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Leica will always engrave a top plate individually - for a small consideration, of course. 

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[budjames]

Does a half case quiet the shutter sound?

 

Not really. I use the Leica half cases with the LCD screen protector flap installed on both of my M10s. I don't notice much difference in the shutter sound level.

 

Regards,

Bud James

 

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

[budjames]

I just realized that trees, mountains, rivers and buildings aren't bother by the loudness of my M10 bodies. 

 

Regards,

Bud James

 

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

[farnz]

Modern microphone and sound editing technology trump shutter noise. Besides which I think we get obsessed with shutter noise while forgetting nine times out of ten it is only the photographer that can hear it. If I'm in the great bucolic outdoors, set the self timer, and take a step or two away from the camera I have to look for the red light to know if my M10 has fired the shutter. And close your eyes and listen if you are in a Cathedral, they are noisy places with coughs, grunts, echoes, and footsteps, not to mention the till ringing in the gift shop. Unless you are banging away like a paparazzo a well timed clearing of the throat masks any shutter sound.  

 

Steve,

 

I don't disagree with what you've written but not everybody has/uses modern microphones and the latest editing technology and whilst there are sometimes other noises like coughs, farts, and grunts etc in cathedrals the metallic click of a shutter is immediately noticeable in a silent cathedral where sound seems to travel much further.  I'd prefer the ability to take pictures with a thoroughly discreet shutter sound because concern about being heard in some environments might affect my decision to take a picture or not.  It's a tool, nothing more, so each to his own I suppose.

 

Pete.

[RF’sDelight]

I am absolutely tempted!   —> https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/286553-leica-m10-p-coming-soon/page-4#entry3573797

And since I heard the M10-P shutter live today I’ll go for the complete package as soon as it’s possible.

[ianman]

The red dot is part of the top plate so I assume if you get the engraving you'll also have to get screwed ;-).

You can get the top plate of any Leica engraved. So there is no reason why you couldn't get your camera engraved and keep the current dot too.

[evikne]

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You can get the top plate of any Leica engraved. So there is no reason why you couldn't get your camera engraved and keep the current dot too.

 

But engraving without changing the top plate is hardly a part of the upgrade program. So even though it looks nice, I wouldn't pay extra for that in addition to a silent shutter.

Edited August 31, 2018 by evikne

[Reciprocity]

One factor I haven't seen discussed is the opportunity cost of not having your camera for how many weeks or months it will take to do this upgrade. Some of the components of the rumored upgrade would seem to require significant surgery, and I can imagine that even a small fraction of M10 users opting for the upgrade will create thousands of hours of work for the Wetzlar technicians to complete. For some professionals (or busy amateurs who place a premium on their hobby time), not having your camera for a couple months (for example) might impose a substantial opportunity cost.

I take it you did not see my posts then?

 

I use the M10 strictly for work, knowing it could be away for months means it needs to be replaced by something else while it is away. For me, that will be a Nikon Z6 mirrorless camera. Then when it comes back I will be able to use it again along with the Z6.

Edited September 1, 2018 by Reciprocity

[Reciprocity]

Steve,

 

I don't disagree with what you've written but not everybody has/uses modern microphones and the latest editing technology and whilst there are sometimes other noises like coughs, farts, and grunts etc in cathedrals the metallic click of a shutter is immediately noticeable in a silent cathedral where sound seems to travel much further. I'd prefer the ability to take pictures with a thoroughly discreet shutter sound because concern about being heard in some environments might affect my decision to take a picture or not. It's a tool, nothing more, so each to his own I suppose.

 

Pete.

If anything you should know by now of this forum, it is that no matter what you say of your needs and why, there will always be someone who just has to tell you are wrong or that their logic and particular viewpoint should solve your problem and that they don’t see what the issue is.

 

I really don’t care what anyone else says about my use of Leica and my needs of the tools I use, I call all the shots in my life and it is simply not even up for debate.

 

When the time is right, I will gladly pay to have the shutter upgraded on my M10.

[GG Media Works]

I for one am very excited for this option. I'm not sure if I'll partake in the program or not but I appreciate having the option. Leica thought about their current M10 customers and decided to make it possible to upgrade if we would like. I respect that. Thank you Leica. 

[mdemeyer]

As a classical music recording engineer, I can tell you that clicking shutters are a real issue and a pain in the %%]# to edit out. Yes, it can be done. But it takes time and that costs the client money.

 

 

 

Steve,

 

I don't disagree with what you've written but not everybody has/uses modern microphones and the latest editing technology and whilst there are sometimes other noises like coughs, farts, and grunts etc in cathedrals the metallic click of a shutter is immediately noticeable in a silent cathedral where sound seems to travel much further. I'd prefer the ability to take pictures with a thoroughly discreet shutter sound because concern about being heard in some environments might affect my decision to take a picture or not. It's a tool, nothing more, so each to his own I suppose.

 

Pete.

[jaapv]

But engraving without changing the top plate is hardly a part of the upgrade program. So even though it looks nice, I wouldn't pay extra for that in addition to a silent shutter.

Or engraving the new top plate, whatever takes your fancy.

[evikne]

Or engraving the new top plate, whatever takes your fancy.

 

Maybe we can even change both top and bottom plate to another color, and make a black M10 into a silver M10-P? 

[ianman]

Or engraving the new top plate, whatever takes your fancy.

No, he wants to keep the red dot :-)

[LocalHero1953]

If anything you should know by now of this forum, it is that no matter what you say of your needs and why, there will always be someone who just has to tell you are wrong or that their logic and particular viewpoint should solve your problem and that they don’t see what the issue is.

 

I really don’t care what anyone else says about my use of Leica and my needs of the tools I use, I call all the shots in my life and it is simply not even up for debate.

 

When the time is right, I will gladly pay to have the shutter upgraded on my M10.

I discovered a new word recently: solipsism.

There's a lot of it about, especially on the internet*.

 

I shot my first and (I hope) only wedding at the weekend. During the church ceremony I sat at the front end of the choir stalls, within a couple of metres of the couple facing me as they made their vows. There's no way I could have taken the shots I did if the camera (SL in this case) had not had a silent electronic shutter. 

 

* I remember, sadly, a thread a few years back about the start up and wake up time for the M240. From the comments made to those calling for much faster than the current nearly 2 secs delay, you'd think we were committing a mortal sin.

[Mark II]

I shot my first and (I hope) only wedding at the weekend. During the church ceremony I sat at the front end of the choir stalls, within a couple of metres of the couple facing me as they made their vows. There's no way I could have taken the shots I did if the camera (SL in this case) had not had a silent electronic shutter. 

 

I am always surprised at how Leica claims that they have such a quiet shutter in digital M's. My M10 is the loudest digital camera that I shoot with today, and loud enough to attract attention on quieter streets.

 

I would be interested in the possible upgrade just for the shutter (the screw and engraving are pointless, and I seldom use the touch-screen on other cameras). But any upgrade costing ~2k euros would have to be done considerably quicker than Leica's usual 2 to 3 month service time before I would consider it.

[ianman]

My M10 is the loudest digital camera that I shoot with today, ...

 

 

This would be normal if all the other digital cameras you shoot with have electronic shutters. Is this the case maybe?

[scott kirkpatrick]

I will never quite understand the obsession with having a silent shutter?

 

I used to do street photography with a Nikon D4 

I tried shooting during onstage rehearsals in an empty theatre with a Nikon F once and everything stopped the moment I fired.  Not the shot I wanted to get. The M2 was quite acceptable.  The CL and SL with totally silent shutters are even more so, if the lighting doesn't flicker.  M10 and any of its derivatives are pretty darned good. 

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[ianman]

I once shot a christening with a Nikon FM2 !  Nobody seemed to mind, I suppose because people where used to that sort of SLR shutter sound then.

[Mark II]

This would be normal if all the other digital cameras you shoot with have electronic shutters. Is this the case maybe?

 

 

Yes - most of the cameras that I use have either leaf shutters or an electronic shutter. And I mainly shoot with an M7 whose shutter is significantly quieter than the M10's.

 

However, the best experience overall has to be the E-M1.2 in electronic-shutter mode. Although it does not have a global shutter, the read out is fast enough to use for general street photography and the only sound is the aperture stopping down. There is also zero mechanical shake to blur an image.

 

An M with a fully electronic shutter would be a very interesting proposition. Whether it is viable probably depends on things such as whether sensor dust can be solved as well the potential risk of fast lenses burning an expensive sensor rather than a shutter curtain (has anyone pointed a wide open Noctilux at the sun while in live view...?).