Really “Is it the end of M road”?

[dkmoore]

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Of course. Anyone can be a photographer. Just give them an M ......

 

non-sensical comment although I know my comment was antagonizing, so that is on me.  But anyhow, I know you understand the point.

[pgk]

Basically, my stance is that the M is a great camera. Its as good as the photographer using it wants it to be. Of course it has limitations, quirks and is not to everybodies' taste. But it has its adherents and modifying it or trying to make it into something that it is not won't make anyone a better photographer, it will merely detract from its core attribute - its simplicity. It will never sell in vast numbers and I'm sure that Leica are well aware of this. It is though, a link to the past and one which has survived many 'trials and tribulations', competition in various forms and even a difficult transition to digital. It can continue to survive and will no doubt have a new band of adherents to whom it will appeal for the reasons above and probably more. Those who want it modified have an enormous choice of alternatives which fulfil most of their requirements already. I would be delighted if they would stop trying to compromise an excellent existing concept and accept that the limitations and simplicity are what makes the M such a desirable camera to some of us.

Edited August 11, 2018 by pgk

[jaapv]

Basically, my stance is that the M is a great camera. Its as good as the photographer using it wants it to be. Of course it has limitations, quirks and is not to everybodies' taste. But it has its adherents and modifying it or trying to make it into something that it is not won't make anyone a better photographer, it will merely detract from its core attribute - its simplicity. It will never sell in vast numbers and I'm sure that Leica are well aware of this. It is though, a link to the past and one which has survived many 'trials and tribulations', competition in various forms and even a difficult transition to digital. It can continue to survive and will no doubt have a new band of adherents to whom it will appeal for the reasons above and probably more. Those who want it modified have an enormous choice of alternatives which fulfil most of their requirements already. I would be delighted if they would stop trying to compromise an excellent existing concept and accept that the limitations and simplicity are what makes the M such a desirable camera to some of us.

+1

 

I was delighted when Leica started transposing the M concept into the 21st Century by the M240 and quite disappointed when they reversed that trend with the M10.

 

However, with the TL- CL- SL family they do have a future-oriented system group and I am content to let the M system rest as an updated-nostalgic product. I am happy to use my beloved M9 and Monochrom1 and embrace the future in the L mount (and M and R adapters ).

 

Which, I guess,, makes the M10 the end of the road to me personally, although I may well buy a used one in the future when prices come down because of an M11 or even M12.

But not for the spurious reasons given by DL. The M10 is a fantastic camera for those that are willing to accept the limitations and make full use of its qualities.

Edited August 11, 2018 by jaapv

[farnz]

... The M10 is a fantastic camera for those that are willing to accept the limitations and make full use of its qualities.

Are you referring in particular to the omission of video, Jaap?  (I have no intention of turning this into a love/hate of the M10 thread, I'm simply curious.)

 

Pete.

[jaapv]

For instance, and the fake rewind knob.

[Gobert]

The lack of video is not an omission, to the contrary I would say.

The fake rewind knob, now being iso, is quite handy. I only hope that it will once be positioned in 45 degrees. That’s more fancy.

[jaapv]

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The lack of video is not an omission, to the contrary I would say.

The fake rewind knob, now being iso, is quite handy. I only hope that it will once be positioned in 45 degrees. That’s more fancy.

That is exactly what I mean: retro over function.

[farnz]

That is exactly what I mean: retro over function.

 

Hmm, to me it's very functional and means that I have direct mechanical control of the 'big three': shutter speed, aperture, and ISO.  But I understand that it might seem like an affectation to some.

 

Pete.

[Gobert]

I fully disagree with you, Jaap. Clever retro design might be a better characterisation

[lct]

That is exactly what I mean: retro over function.

 

+ 1

[pgk]

I am constantly surprised that anyone would want to shoot video with a camera so clearly designed for stills. IMO this is an absolute 'compromise' which does little to enhance the reputation of a simplistic stills camera. Just use a cheap compact instead - it will be as good if not better.

 

Its a bit like producing a beautifully designed, weighted and balanced hammer with a screwdriver on the bottom of the shaft. Usable? Well yes but poorly and it hardly does credit to the rest of the design (even if it can be used effectively with great care).

Edited August 11, 2018 by pgk

[jaapv]

I am constantly surprised that anyone would want to shoot video with a camera so clearly designed for stills. IMO this is an absolute 'compromise' which does little to enhance the reputation of a simplistic stills camera. Just use a cheap compact instead - it will be as good if not better.

It isn't It was intended as an universal travel camera. Dr. Paul Wolff was forced to carry a 16 mm movie camera  next to his Barnack, and "faked" some action shots.

The Canon 5D was designed as a stills camera...  

[IkarusJohn]

... The Canon 5D was designed as a stills camera...

 

I can’t think of a better argument for dropping video from the M camera system.

[pgk]

I've used a 5DII for tv work - it isn't easy!

[Jon Warwick]

I am constantly surprised that anyone would want to shoot video with a camera so clearly designed for stills. IMO this is an absolute 'compromise' which does little to enhance the reputation of a simplistic stills camera. Just use a cheap compact instead - it will be as good if not better.

 

Its a bit like producing a beautifully designed, weighted and balanced hammer with a screwdriver on the bottom of the shaft. Usable? Well yes but poorly and it hardly does credit to the rest of the design (even if it can be used effectively with great care).

Well, Leica put video into the M240 (and as a small, “travel” style point-and-shoot, I thought video in an M made sense). I’ve always assumed, rightly or wrongly, that the reason there is no video in the M10 is due to technical reason of over-heating in what is now such a thin analogue-sized body?

[IkarusJohn]

Well, Leica put video into the M240 (and as a small, “travel” style point-and-shoot, I thought video in an M made sense). I’ve always assumed, rightly or wrongly, that the reason there is no video in the M10 is due to technical reason of over-heating in what is now such a thin analogue-sized body?

Or they decided to make the camera more “analogue” with direct controls, slimmer body and ro remove the “bloat” from the M(240).

[Jon Warwick]

Or they decided to make the camera more “analogue” with direct controls, slimmer body and ro remove the “bloat” from the M(240).

Maybe. Some comments here. I guess we can interpret them individually.

 

http://blog.leica-camera.com/2017/01/18/looking-back-move-forward/

 

“A video function, and the additional demands this would have placed on the camera, would have led to compromises in terms of operation, construction and design that would not have been compatible with our goal of developing the perfect rangefinder stills camera”.

[IkarusJohn]

... “the perfect rangefinder stills camera” ...

 

Video doesn’t really come into that, does it?

 

Anyway, my view is that the perfect combination of Leica cameras is the Monochrom (v1) and the SL (&TL2). I will consider adding a colour M colour digital (against my better judgment) if the M10-D comes out with EVF(020) compatibility and WiFi (and even better a joystick for moving the focal point).

[jaapv]

Maybe. Some comments here. I guess we can interpret them individually.

 

http://blog.leica-camera.com/2017/01/18/looking-back-move-forward/

 

“A video function, and the additional demands this would have placed on the camera, would have led to compromises in terms of operation, construction and design that would not have been compatible with our goal of developing the perfect rangefinder stills camera”.

Marketing blah for: "we couldn't get video to work because of heat issues".

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jaapv]

Even stills. I have shots I could never have taken if the camera did not have 4K (that IS Video) stills options. Like 30 fps bursts, pre-release bursts and post-focus stacking - the last would be impossible on any M.