Summilux-M 50mm f/1.4 ASPH. Black-Chrome Limited Edition), why the stock NEVER ENDS?

[adan]

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Here's a little test - Leica USA's own online store shows a picture of the black chrome, with S/N 4316136 (thus not disclosing anything secret).

Does anyone have a copy with a S/N more than 250 higher than that? Does anyone have a copy with a S/N more than 250 lower that?

(That's not automatically definitive, since there is no guarantee they were made with sequential numbers).

The cynic in me wants to ask - just how many people are there in the world with 1) enough business/financial smarts to be able to buy a $5000 "normal" lens, yet 2) are suckers enough to do so? Draw a Venn diagram.

[wattsy]

4 minutes ago, adan said:

The cynic in me wants to ask - just how many people are there in the world with 1) enough business/financial smarts to be able to buy a $5000 "normal" lens, yet 2) are suckers enough to do so? Draw a Venn diagram.

I don't think anyone is a sucker for buying a 50 Summilux. It's a terrific lens and both the regular and black chrome variations are reasonably priced (by Leica standards) for something that can be expected to last a lifetime of use (if the owner is so inclined).

[wattsy]

Incidentally, there's no need to look at serial numbers as there is no reason to doubt that Leica have produced more than 500 copies of this lens. The initial run sold out quite quickly back in 2015 (I think that was the year) and it has been available on and off ever since. I can still buy a copy today from at least one Leica dealer in the UK.

Edited January 24, 2020 by wattsy

[wattsy]

18 hours ago, mnutzer said:

Why shouldn't Leica give more fans a chance to acquire such wonderful lenses?
...
If any speculators got ruined their business along the way, it should be seen as a positive side effect.

I can't say I could give a monkey's either way about "speculators" but I'm not sure I agree with your wider point. It's not a big deal but I don't think it reflects well on Leica when they announce a product as a limited edition – and, thus, encourage people to buy something now that they might otherwise wait a while before doing so – and then later renege on that by continuing to sell the product as a regular edition. Yes, it is good that more people get to buy a product that is unexpectedly popular but it nonetheless shows a lack of integrity on the part of the company.

[pedaes]

Maybe semantics, but you could say the 'batch of 500' was just that, and it was taken incorrectly as a one off batch.. Personally happy to see any success that contributes to the long term viability of the M line.

[evikne]

46 minutes ago, adan said:

Here's a little test - Leica USA's own online store shows a picture of the black chrome, with S/N 4316136 (thus not disclosing anything secret).

Does anyone have a copy with a S/N more than 250 higher than that? Does anyone have a copy with a S/N more than 250 lower that?

My copy has S/N 4652922. Bought new in Norway, Oct 2019 (produced Feb 2019).

[ELAN]

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My copy is 46529xx, purchased new at Leica Los Angeles in March 2018 for $4200. It was meant to replace my standard silver chrome but I still have both.  

@wattsy - I agree that it’s disingenuous of Leica to offer a limited edition in 2015 only to later offer it as standard production, yet I’m happy I could buy one. It’s a lovely lens.  

@adam - I disagree that suckers buy this lens. The 50 lux is perhaps the best value for money in the entire M range and the retro BC version with its knurled focus ring is most enjoyable to operate and look at.  I often mount it instead of the 50 APO or 50 Noctilux. 

[adan]

52 minutes ago, wattsy said:

I don't think anyone is a sucker for buying a 50 Summilux.

A plain-vanilla 50 Summilux ASPH is fine. A cosmetically-enhanced (but not functionally different) lens is something else.

This may provide a little (if old) light on the subject: https://prosophos.com/2018/12/05/follow-up-to-last-weeks-post-the-leica-50mm-summilux-asph-black-chrome-special-edition/

The nut - there was a 500-piece black-paint LHSA edition of the 50 Summilux ASPH in 2003. There was a 500-piece black-chrome LHSA edition in 2015 - (including a box saying "LHS(A?)"). There appears to be another 500-piece edition not associated with the LHSA (no label on the box) currently for sale and currently advertised as an edition of 500.

What does it say on the box and what comes in the box? Leica has sold some "edition" items with addition unique engraving, art-print-style, such as 18/50 (e.g. Jaguar XK 50-years M6 and 50 Elmar, 18th set out of 50) and certificates and other bling. Those tend to run an extra $10,000 or so (counting inflation), not just an extra $800-1000. But at least one knows exactly what one is buying. Caveat Emptor - or get it in writing.

Speaking of art prints, there are rules for those - but they don't preclude multiple limited editions, just so long as that is clearly documented in writing to the buyer(s) - 1947 edition of 250, 1968 edition of 200, posthumous 1988 edition of 500, etc.

Me, if I list an edition of 25, 25 is all I produce, one size, any/all years. 25 and done. I try not to rest on my laurels, but get out and produce new work. If I sell "artist's proofs," they really are proofs - 1-3 trial prints, often imperfect, at not much over cost.

[wattsy]

2 hours ago, adan said:

A plain-vanilla 50 Summilux ASPH is fine. A cosmetically-enhanced (but not functionally different) lens is something else.

But It's not purely cosmetic in this case. (Incidentally I don't own the black chrome 50 so I'm not being defensive.) The lack of a focus tab is an important difference to many people. Besides which, the price difference is minimal (at least here in the UK). I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to make in the rest of your post? I know all about the other versions of this lens. I also know that when this lens was originally marketed (along with the black chrome 35 Summicron-ASPH), part of the marketing spiel was that there were going to be 500 units made. I know that it was never a formal limited edition with a signed certificate, etc. but, nonetheless, I have been surprised that Leica essentially went back on the original intention (at least as it was stated by the marketing team) and have continued to produce it ad infinitum.

Edited January 24, 2020 by wattsy

[wattsy]

3 hours ago, pedaes said:

Maybe semantics, but you could say the 'batch of 500' was just that, and it was taken incorrectly as a one off batch.. Personally happy to see any success that contributes to the long term viability of the M line.

I can't remember exactly how it was worded but a quick Google of the press release brings up varying quotes, most of which reference an edition of 500, not batch. The following quote from (I think) Leica USA and posted on Leicarumours is how I remember the announcement in 2015.

Quote

 

"Leica Camera is happy to announce that two of its most popular lenses, the Leica Summicron-M 35 mm f/2 ASPH and the Leica Summilux-M 50 mm f/1.4 ASPH are now available in black chrome finish. Only 500 units of each lens will be manufactured.

The focusing scale on both lenses is in red and the lenses come with a round metal lens hood and metal lens cap. The matte black surfaces of both lenses give it a unique look and a resilient finish. The Summilux-M 50 mm f/1.4 has the classic outer design of its predecessor from 1959, with its contoured focusing and aperture rings, while maintaining the optical design of the current ASPH model.

These lenses will be available at all Leica Stores, Boutiques and dealers. The lenses come with a three-year passport warranty. We anticipate receiving the first shipment of lenses at the end of this April."

 

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by wattsy

[evikne]

5 hours ago, adan said:

There appears to be another 500-piece edition not associated with the LHSA (no label on the box) currently for sale and currently advertised as an edition of 500.

What does it say on the box and what comes in the box?

As far as I can see, there is absolutely no text on my box or in any of the accompanying (standard) papers indicating that this is a limited edition in any way. 

[wattsy]

22 minutes ago, evikne said:

As far as I can see, there is absolutely no text on my box or in any of the accompanying (standard) papers indicating that this is a limited edition in any way. 

That is correct. I don't have the 50 but do have the 35 Summicron black chrome and there is no limited edition certificate of authenticity or any of that kind of crap in the box but I don't believe anyone has claimed that it does. Nobody is going to try and hold Leica to account in a court of law. The simple point being made is that, at the time of the launch of these two products, Leica announced that each lens was going to be restricted to 500 units and people will have ordered or bought the lens armed with that information. As I have stated, I don't particularly care other than I think it shows a lack of integrity on the part of the company to renege on the initial commitment. It could be that the initial marketing claim was in fact bogus (the marketing people, divorced from the product management, might have got the wrong end of the stick and claimed that the product was limited to 500 units when it fact it was never intended to be?), in which case that just smacks of a little incompetence.

Edited January 24, 2020 by wattsy

[evikne]

I don't care either. I bought it mainly because of the scalloped focus ring, not because it's a collectible.

[anickpick]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb evikne:

I don't care either. I bought it mainly because of the scalloped focus ring, not because it's a collectible.

+ 1

[coz]

I think the LHSA versions are numbered as well as opposed to this chrome version.

Also the 50 summicron apo.  700 black chrome limited from last year.  But will they keep making them like the 50 lux chrome?

[DwF]

Following this and if it is useful:  LHSA lenses appear to show part numbers 11627 and 11628.  11628 appears to be Black Paint and 11627 Black Chrome. I assume there were runs of 500 each. The modern E43 Black Chrome has number 11688.

[IkarusJohn]

I have the silver chrome 50 Summilux, and love it.  It is buttery smooth.  When the black paint edition was released, with the scalloped focus ring, I almost traded my silver chrome version, but couldn’t justify it.  They were the LHSA, numbered versions.  The black chrome one that followed interested me, but only if I lost or broke my existing one.  

When the black chrome version of the APO 50 Summicron was released, I relented - love that lens ...

I’m not bothered that Leica went on from their original 500 production run, of whichever lens itwas.  My recollection was that it was a different lens in some respect.  I could be mistaken.  Apart from the LHSA version, these weren’t released as collectible or limited editions.  Its was just a run.  Much like the M60 followed by the M-D, they were popular, so Leica did a production run at a modest premium over the standard.  I’m pleased they did.

If someone bought the black paint version, their’s is still a desirable and collectible item.  My APO is “just” a lens ...

[farnz]

10 hours ago, adan said:

... A plain-vanilla 50 Summilux ASPH is fine. A cosmetically-enhanced (but not functionally different) lens is something else. ...

If that was the case I might agree but it's not.  Both have the same lens computation but the 'plain-villa' 50 Summilux asph has an E46 filter thread and the Black Chrome originally limited edition 50 Summilux has an E43 filter thread. This might not seem like much of a difference but my Black Chrome produces a subtle vignette when shot wide open that closely resembles, to my eye, the 50/1 Noctilux's signature 'graduated' vignette, which I find very attractive and is not readily replicated in post processing.  

For those who might say that a vignette is an unwelcome aberration then we will politely disagree.  Wide open the Black Chrome's pictures, to me, combine the outstanding acutance and contrast for which the 'plain-villa' 50 Summilux is renowned with some of the mystery of the 50/1 Noctilux and that's just fine with me.

I traded my 'plain-villa' 50 Summilux asp, which I'd owned from new for 10 years, for a Black Chrome version because the focus action had always been slightly stiff and jerky despite being assured that it would wear in and become smooth.  It didn't.  The Black Chrome's focus action is buttery-smooth and was a substantial reason that I traded up.  As mentioned earlier by Ernst, the Black Chrome has a scalloped focus ring, which adds to the lens's haptic and helped make the decision to trade up as well.

Incidentally, the profit yielded by trading up my 'plain-villa' 50 Summilux in good condition bought ten years earlier considerably softened the sticker pain too.

I think it is more than simply a cosmetically enhanced 'plain-villa'.

Pete.

 

[microview]

On 13 June 2018 at 10:31 PM, microview said:

 but I think my interest is fading given its size with lens hood fitted and that weight on an M.

Oh dear, although I wrote that back then, i am suffering a new attack of GAS re the black chrome beauty.

 

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[derleicaman]

Hopefully, I can shed a little light on the subject. As part of the limited edition MP3 camera set for the LHSA, I specified that the 50 Summilux ASPH would be the basis for a retro styled lens with the appearance of the original 50 Summilux lens. My original 50 Summilux chrome, which I still own, was the design target. I too, have always loved the look of the original Summilux and its haptics. Leica did an incredible job with it, despite their original objection to doing the lens. 500 each in black paint and silver chrome were made, end of story. That was in 2006.

The current black chrome “limited edition” lens, though based on the original LHSA limited edition, has nothing to do with the LHSA. We never had a black chrome version of the lens done.

BTW, the more recent 50 APO Summicron ASPH LHSA Special Edition lens has a very similar back story. I specified that this lens have the retro styling of the 2nd version of the Rigid Summicron with the wider scalloped focusing ring. Once again, I used a lens in my collection to show the Leica people what we were going for as a design target. The only difference would be the elimination of the infinity lock.

Again, once the LHSA limited edition was completed, Leica came out with their own black chrome version. This time, it was only about a year later.

Another point of interest is that both LHSA lenses are a bit larger than the original lenses they are based on.